Memoirs Final:
(1) Read the prompt below and respond in 2-3 paragraphs with supporting detail from the novel.
(2) Then, write your own question for another student in class that tackles an important theme, conflict, or event occurring in the novel. It needs to be thought provoking and should NOT be easily answered as a yes or no answer. Make sure your question comes at the end of your response and is clearly identifiable.
(3) Finally, choose a question posed by another classmate and respond in 2-3 paragraphs with supporting detail from the novel. Indicate which classmate you are responding to and COPY and PASTE the question at the top of your response.
Sayuri’s last reflection reads:
I cannot tell you what it is that guides us in this life; but for me, I fell toward the Chairman just as a stone must fall toward the earth. When I cut my lip and met Mr. Tanaka, when my mother died, and I was cruelly sold, it was all like a stream that falls over rocky cliffs before it can reach the ocean. Even now that he is gone I have him still, in the richness of my memories. I’ve lived my life again just telling it to you.
It’s true that sometimes when I cross Park Avenue, I’m struck with the peculiar sense of how exotic my surroundings are. The yellow taxicabs that go sweeping past, honking their horns; the women with their briefcases, who look so perplexed to see a little old Japanese woman standing on the street corner in kimono. But really, would Yoroido seem any less exotic if I went back there again? As a young girl I believed my life would never have been a struggle if Mr. Tanaka hadn’t torn me away from my tipsy house. But now I know that our world is no more permanent than a wave rising on the ocean. Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper. (498-99)
(1) Earlier in the novel we discussed the role destiny plays in Sayuri’s life, and how much she believed she could control her own destiny. To what extent was she responsible for the way her life turned out and how much was placed in the hands of others and fate itself?
(2) Sayuri states in the last sentence of the novel: “Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper” (499). What do you think she means by this?
128 comments:
1. Sayuri was responsible for the way her life turned out in the fact that she went against what people told her. She was told not to run away from the okiya, but she tried anyway. She was told not to have personal relations with anyone other than someone who paid for it, such as a danna or the man who bought her mizuage, but she did with the Minister. These acts were an attempt to better her life. Sayuri thought that if she ran away, she would be free. However, if she had actually gotten away, who knows how her life would have played out. The same goes for if she hadn't have been with the Minister. Ultimately, her goal of being with the Chairman was reached because of the Minister incident, but she didn't know that it would be foolproof.
Sayuri's life was controlled by others when it came to becoming a geisha. Her father sold her to Mr. Tanaka who took her to the okiya, and she had no control over that. Also, Mameha offering to be her big sister changed Sayuri's condemned life of a maid to a geisha. If these people hadn't had intervened, her life would have been completely different. She could have been merely a fisherman's wife or forced to serve the okiya until she died. She was lucky her life was taken over when her other possibly destiny is taken into consideration.
2. What Sayuri means by this is that eventually, our lives just mix with everyone else's. Most people live a life that is nothing out of the ordinary. When one person dies, the whole world doesn't come to a halt, and when someone does a good deed, not everyone is effected. Basically, her quote is stating that we are nothing more than a quick second in the reaches of time. All life comes to an end eventually, and all people suffer hardships and experience great joy. No one should consider themselves superior to others because of what they've done in their lives. After a very long time, events are forgotten and thrown into the "wash".
My Question:
Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example, sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
Response:
Sayuri has attempted to "defy" her destiny several times throughout the course of the book. As a younger girl, Sayuri demonstrated this mindset by doing things such as making an effort to escape from the Nitta okiya. When, in conclusion, one assumes that destiny will see to it that she doesn't succeed, she is correspondingly "defying" it. In Sayuri's culture, it is not abnormal to make important decisions based on an almanac; this exemplifies the great emphasis the society as a whole places on "external destiny." This, combined with the fact that several occurrences may have been avoided if the choice-maker would have simply consulted the almanac, one can also assume that this "external destiny" is a partially legitimate force, at least, for the sake of this book. So based on this analysis, there has been a healthy balance between the amount of influence Sayuri has exerted over her future, and the amount that this external destiny has contributed.
Sayuri believes that eventually all individuals become part of a collective whole (whereas they are actually part of the whole all-along, but it just becomes much, much more apparent in the final years), and that essentially, we’re all the same. All, regardless of socio-economic status, skin color, and/or intelligence, experience both bliss and depression. This is a very fundamental principle that many seem not to recognize, but Sayuri feels obligated to address this issue in her current “anomalous” state of being. The woman confronting this problematic lack of realization is the same little woman wearing the kimono in the streets of New York City. She clearly grasps a more comprehensive understanding of this concept than many of her other equals. A perfect line to complement this position:
“All in all, you’re just another brick in the wall.”
My Question:
Is what Sayuri did to Nobu morally wrong? With all of his help and friendship throughout the entirety of her career, was she inappropriate in deliberately planning to sabotage their relationship in the end?
My Response:
To Be Written…
1. I also say that Sayuri does have a major responsibility in her life she also is in almost total control. The only thing that she wasn't really in control of and that is mainly because she had no clue was teh fact that the Chairman was doing so much for her. She had no clue about this so she could not have controlled it in any way.
On the other hand all her effort all her friends she made and all those countless hours of effort that she put into becoming a geisha was really the defining decision in her becoming one and getting where she got. If she had not put out all the effort in making her dreams come true than they would never have happened. So it is rally a combination of both her helping herslef and other people helping her. Without them she wouldn't have had the chances but without her effort those chances wouldn't have become her dreams.
2. I think she means that no matter what you do in life no matter how succesful you become, if your famous or poor all of those things eventually lead to very similar if not the same thing. Certain things in life are unavoidable and that is what i feel she is trying to bring up.
Also it seems as though she is in a way talking about how time not only heals all wounds but it lessens the great successess and acheivments too.
My Question: Do you think that it was right for Pumpkin to do what she did by bringing the Chairman? She did go through lots of struggles and hardships to but, was it in her best interest to do that? Why?
1. The only way Sayuri controlled her destiny was hanging onto the the thought that she could see the chairman once again if she became a Geisha. So really, Sayuri's destiny was in the hands of the Chairman from the day they met. It was fate that led the Chairman to Sayuri that day near the stream. If Sayuri never would have met the chairman, she would have probably some how successfuly ran away and never would have had the life of a Geisha.
Sayuri tryed to control her destiny when she set herself up to get caught with the Minister. But in another sense, her destiny wasn't in her hands at all, it was in Pumpkin's because she was responsilbe for bringing the right person. Even though she went againts Sayuri's word, and brought the Chairman instead of Nobu, it still worked out in the end for Sayuri. As much as Sayuri tried to control her destiny, I think it was out of her reach the whole time.
2. I think what Sayuri's statement means is, it doesn't matter what you did to get where you are today, all that matters is you got there. I think Sayuri is speaking for "average" people, no one cares what hardships they went through, and how they became what they are today. "Average" people don't get books written about them and society doesn't drool over them saying "this person did this and this person did that."
You as an indivual may know what hardships and triumphs you went through to be successful, and maybe a few more select people that helped you on the way. But all too soon you just blend in with everyone else around you who may have gone through the exact same you went through.
My Question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
Ian Vanmiddlesworth's question.
Do you think that it was right for Pumpkin to do what she did by bringing the Chairman? She did go through lots of struggles and hardships to but, was it in her best interest to do that? Why?
My response:
Pumpkin tried to sabotage Sayuri's destiny by bringing the Chairman to find her and the minister. I think pumpkin did this to get back at Sayuri. Sayuri became a more successful Geisha than she did. Pumpkin was supposed to be adopted by Mother, but Sayuri got chosen instead.
Pumpkin had all of this anger and jealousy towards Sayuri, but could never do anything about it. Pumpkin wanted to make life miserable for Sayuri like it was for her. Pumpkin was wrong to do this, but in the end, it backfired on her. At first it was in Pumpkin's best interest to take the chairman instead, because Sayuri specifically asked her not to. But in the end, Sayuri got what she wanted, and Pumpkin didn't, again.
C. Deshamp's Question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
My Response:
In a time that was so difficult for Chiyo (her young childhood), the Chairman was the one of the only people who had reached out with the hand of kindness and made a positive impact on little Chiyo. After being sold to an okiya in Gion by someone who she thought would be adopting her, the death of her parents, and her unfortunate eternal condemnation as a slave, Chiyo had very little motivational drive to be a geisha. Her concept of a geisha was the rude and deceitful Hatsumomo; the Chairman and his geisha company altered this impression.
With a changed perspective on the role of a geisha, and a newly-found love for a man who demonstrated such admirable kindness, Chiyo was determined to once again encounter that man, and knew it would be by becoming a geisha.
In addition, Chiyo does like Nobu as a friend, but she has done virtually nothing for herself, and should not be forced to be in a danna relationship with a man who shes does not truly love. Especially when the one and only that she has since she was a little girl literally stands right next to her.
My $.02
1. I think that alot of Sayuri's destiny was placed in other peoples hands for example in the book on page 480-481 the Chairman says "Sayuri, I am the one who asked Mameha to take you under her care. I told her about a beautiful young girl I'd met, and asked that she help you if she ever came upon you in Gion. I said I would cover her expenses if necessary. From what she's told me over the years you would certainly never have become a geisha without her help."
So you can see that alot of her destiny was placed in the Chairman and Mameha's hands.
Sayuri obviously had a part in her own destiny more so when she decided to have sex with the minister. This was sort of the turing point to have the destiny she desired. Her destiny would not have been possible with out this action because Nobu would have become her danna. Then she could never love the chairman in fear of a conflict between Nobu and the Chairman. On page 486 the Chairman said "Nobu gave you up,Sayuri. I've taken nothing away from him.When I saw you there with the minister,"After pumplkin told me you'd intended the encounter for Nobu's eyes,I made up my mind to tell Nobu what I'd seen. And when he reacted so angrily... well. if he couldn't forgive you for what you'd done, it was clear to me he was never truly your destiny."
2. When Sayuri says this last line in the book she means that every one has there struggles when they are actually in the moment the struggles feel so prominent in thier life. But in reality problems come and go and people keep moving on. The things that used to seem so important in their life all mix together as memories that they look back on.
Deschamps15's Question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
My Response:
I think the reason Sayuri had such a desire to end up with the Chairman was because he was the first one to show kindness to her he saw her potential before she was even a geisha. A big difference from Nobu who wouldn't have stoped on a bridge to comfort a little girl Nobu only had intrest in her when she had become a geisha. Nobu gave her many worldly things like combs and other physical presents. The Chairman gave Sayuri much more powerful gifts like simple kindness hope and a chance to become a geisha when no one else belived in her. These were the gifts that made her love the chairman. For example on page 131 Sayuri says I wasn't thanking him for the coin or even for the trouble he had taken to help me.I was thanking him for showing me something besides cruelty could be found in the world.
MY QUESTION:
What do you think Mameha motives were behind helping Sayuri become a geisha? Was she more interested in destroying hatsumomos carrer or was she just helping Sayuri because Chairman had asked her to? Was she helping Sayuri out of her own kindness?
1. I think her life was destined to turn out the way it did. Yes she had some control of her destiny but, such as choosing to tell the chairman about the day by the river,, but in the end i think it wass destiny that chose to bring her and the chairman together. He told her how he went to Mameha and told her he wanted young chiyo to become a geisha, to take her under her wing so one day Sayuir would be the Chairmans. However when Nobu took interest in Sayuri the Chairman felt her alone because he was a good friend to Nobu and believed Nobu deserved some happiness. One of the way Sayuri played a role in her destiny is when she took the Minister to the theater and asked Pumpkin to bring Nobu there. However Pumpkin brought the Chairman instead which led up to the event of the Chairman being her danna instead of Nobu.
2. What I think she means by this is that no matter how hard you struggle and how difficult life is at one point it stops mattering. That after and certain point in time the pain and agony you may have faced when you were younger just washes away and you can just be truly happy with where you got in life and how things turned out. As if nothing mattered before and the troubles you faced just made you stronger and turned you into what you are today.
3.(heather j) Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example, sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
In my opinion I think she was willing to risk her career because she just wanted to be truly happy. She was in love with the Chairman and would have done anything to be with him. In the end I think what she did was well worth it. She got what she truly desired. However she did pretty much ruin her career because of it she wasn't able to be a geisha any long in fear of running into Nobu and having rumors spread about her.
As well I think nobody wants to have your destiny chosen for you everyone wants what they want and most will do whatever trying to fight it however you can't always fight destiny things happen for a reason, everything in this book leads up to the final event. if she hadn’t run away then she would have never broken her arm and been forced to be a maid. And if she wasn't a maid then she wouldn’t have stopped to cry that day by the river and would have never met the chairman. Which I’m sure even if she hadn’t run away in the first place she would have be come a successful geisha, you never know. She states that her main influence for becoming a geisha was her love for the Chairman and that one day she would be able to see him again and be with her.
My Question:
In the end of the book Pumpkin sabotages Sayuri by purposly disobaying her favor. Do you think that those years of being Hatumomos little sister turnes Pumpkin into her?
1) I think that syuri was trying to controll her destiny by the fact she was trying to be such a good geisha just to get chairman. she was basing her geisha skills to try to impress chairman so she could be with him. she would get closer and closer but she couldnt get him right were she wanted so she would empress nobu that way it would empress him.
when she was sold to a geisha house when she was younger her destiny was controlled by her dad. she had no choice or no control of what was going to happen after that. Her destiny was in the hands of the buyer that bought her into the geisha house. she tryed getting together with her sister to escape but her sister ended up bailing out on her so her sister ended up having a part in her destiny as well. she had no family left but the geishas around her.
2) i think that sayuri is trying to say is that you need to get burnt to get rewarded. You cant always have what you want. there is always things that happen to you that take you away from what you are trying to get or achieve.
people seem to think that life should be easy. you have to work hard or what you want. were ever life may take you you cant just give up on what you really want in life. yeah it may suck at times but dont give up. you are going to be set up for failure in life its just how you handle it is the real test.
My Question:
was it right for the chariman to get together with Sayure, even though he knew how strongly Nobu felt about her? Would it have been better if the chariman left Sayuri and let Pumpkin get away with taking the wrong person?
Carly15's Question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
from the begining Sayuri had a secret crush on the Chairman. she couldnt just come out and say it becuase she had to keep in secret to save her Geisha popularity. so its not what Nobu had or didnt have its that the Chairman stole her heart fromt he begining and she didnt let anybody else have it.
1. I believe Sayuri was responsible for 50 percent of the way her life turned out. No she did not choose to be a slave, or a Geisha, but she did not obey what she was told either. If she would have went along with what she was told to do her life would have been twenty times easier. She made it worse for herself. She attempted to have a better life by having a relationship with the Minister, even though she was told not to. Coincidently having that relationship did help even though it was against the geisha rules. Although her running away did not have the same outcome. She had to decide between risking getting caught, or possibly being free. Sayuri got lucky and ended up with the chairman, but she risked alot getting there.
Sayuri had no control of wether or not she would become a geisha. She was sold to Mr. Tanaka by her father and was taken away to Okiya. Sayuri being small and young, could do nothing about it. When Mameha offered to be her big sister she was no longer a maid, but now a geisha. Sayuri once again got lucky, if she would not have been "rescued" by Mameha she would have been a maid until she passed away.
2. Sayuri's meaning is that sooner or later everyone just becomes alike. You try and make your life different from others, but it always turns out just like everyone elses. You are born, go to school, get a job, and eventually die. Its just one big pattern.
Question:
How can such a young girl like Sayuri give up so much and risk so much to become a geisha?
I am answering Heathers question.
Question:
Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example, sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
Answer:
I believe Sayuri risked so much in order to change her destiny because thats not what she wanted, and she wanted hers to be different. Being a geisha was not what she wanted, she was chosen to be one. Sayuri wanted to choose her own destiny, not have it chosen for her. She was such a strong willed girl and very hard headed. If sleeping with the minister, and running away and taking the risk of getting caught was what it took, she was willing to do it.
The belief in destiny is a very curious thing. Destiny is defined as; the predetermined, usually inevitable or irresistible, course of events. If that is true, Sayuri really had no choice in the path that her life went. Some may say that it was Sayuri's destiny to become a great Geisha but it also took great effort on her part to succeed in making her dreams a reality. She had to go to her classes, work hard, and at most times but her personal feelings aside just to become the Geisha she dreamt of being. True, fate brought Mameha to Sayuri but it because of the hard work by both Sayuri and Mameha that drove her to be a famous Geisha. It is impossible to say that EVERYTHING that happened to Sayuri was simply destiny. In life we have to make choices that mold our lives into what we want them to become. There are uncontrollable events such as war and death that are inevitable, but most events in life take hard work and dedication and destiny, no matter how powerful, can simply hand those things to us.
Sayuri went through very difficult obstacles in her life. She was sold into a Geisha house, her parents died, and she was cruelly treated in the okiya before she became a Geisha. Life throws us all sorts troubles, however Sayuri states that "all too soon they bleed into a wash". This statement is saying that all events in life no matter how monumental become blurred with time. At the moment when something great or terrible happens it is vivid and powerful. However, with time the bad things do not seem as bad, and the good things not as great... With time our struggles and our triumphs become foggy and we are able to move on with our lives "living in the now". Sayuri went through highs and lows but in the end they are simply memories that fade with time.
My Question
Nobu helped Sayuri during the war by giving her a place to live and work with the kimono maker. After the war her informs her that he now needs her help. Do you think that he could forsee the ruin of his company and knew he would need her help, or do you think he was genuine in caring for her and just wanted her to be safe?
I am answering Blake's question.
What do you think Mameha motives were behind helping Sayuri become a geisha? Was she more interested in destroying hatsumomos carrer or was she just helping Sayuri because Chairman had asked her to? Was she helping Sayuri out of her own kindness?
In life very few people do things simply out of their own kindness. It is obvious from the beginning of the book that Hatsumomo and Mameha were enemies. I believe Mameha saw a chance to be rid of Hatsumomo through Sayuri and took that chance. She did everything she could to assist Sayuri to become a great Geisha and did everything that she could to drive Hatsumomo out of Gion.
At one point in the book Sayuri and Mameha were following Hatsumomo around to the teahouses that she would be entertaining. Finally, when Mameha had the man who just kissed her kiss Hatsumomo she finally snapped. In a way both Sayuri and Mameha had sunk down to Hatsumomo's level. Earlier in the book Hatsumomo would follow Sayuri around to different tea houses trying to drive her out in the same way. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire and in Mameha's case it work. She did drive Hatsumomo out of town and had a successful younger sister in Sayuri.
1. Sayuri was born in the year of the monkey and people say she is filled with too much water. Although water may carve a path, Sayuri is unable to control where it flows. She does have a hand in one significant event, betraying Nobu. If she had not dishonored herself the chairman would not have been able to become her danna ,due to his relationship he has with Nobu.
From the moment she was sold to the Okiya, Sayuri has her choices made for her. She has no choice on what she does, wears or who she respects. When she first meets the chairman when she was little, she is determined to become a geisha. Yet this decisions was not hers either it was the Chairman’s. It seems to me her life has always been in the Chairman’s hands.
2.In the end Sayuri admits that her struggles were trivial to the big picture of her life. At the end of the novel she says, “Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper” (499). People will not remember what you went through in life they will remember who you were. The quote is a flowery way of saying hardships fade and one is left with good things in life.
My question
Do you think the Chairman told Nobu about what he saw on Amami (Sayuri and the minister) to warn Nobu, or to gain a relationship with Sayuri? Was his intention to warn a friend or solely to prevent him from becoming her danna?
1. The way that Sayuri is responsible for the way that her life had turned out is, if she had not had the determination and will to keep going to school, and keep practicing then she would not have ended up where she did. Like earlier in the book she had gotten the chance to run away from the Okiya and she made the final decision not to leave. Sayuri had a plan to start with and she worked her way to getting it. (A)To become a Geisha. And (B)To be with the chairman.
The way that her destiny was placed in the hands of other people is for example: Mameha. If Mameha had not made that deal with the mother the Sayuri's Okiya, then she would not have had Mameha as an older sister. If it were not for Mameha guiding Sayuri, and telling when to do this, or how to do that. Then Sayuri's future would have gone right down the drain.
2.I think that she meant, after everything is done: fighting, training, schooling, being a geisha or whatever, it all comes together in the end.
Ian g.'s question:
Is what Sayuri did to Nobu morally wrong? With all of his help and friendship throughout the entirety of her career, was she inappropriate in deliberately planning to sabotage their relationship in the end?
My response:
I think that what she did was indeed wrong to Mr. Nobu, however she did have to look out for her own career. So I can see why she did however wrong it maybe.
My Question:
During the war, what do you think was going through Sayuri's mind? Such as: The Chairman, Nobu, and Mameha.
Ian g.
Is what Sayuri did to Nobu morally wrong? With all of his help and friendship throughout the entirety of her career, was she inappropriate in deliberately planning to sabotage their relationship in the end?
My response
I do believe what Sayuri is technically morally wrong by sleeping with the minister. Nobu has helped her so much throughout the years and she is the only geisha that Nobu has ever liked to be around. Nobu was also the only person to visit her when she was sent away so, they should be special to one another right? In my opinion Sayuri doesn’t owe Nobu anything.
Sayuri knew what she wanted to be with the chairman. She knew that she never wanted another person like Dr. Crab to become her danna(a person that she felt no feelings for). She was miserable then and she knew that she would be with Nobu too. Nobu was also her friend and I don’t think she necessarily wanted that to change. In what she did on Amami, she found her own destiny and changed her future for the better.
Ian g.
Is what Sayuri did to Nobu morally wrong? With all of his help and friendship throughout the entirety of her career, was she inappropriate in deliberately planning to sabotage their relationship in the end?
Sayuri's sabotage was morally wrong, but I can see why she did it. Nobu did nothing but good things for her, and she returned the favor by betraying him. Although what she did seems wrong, she did love the Chairman. If I loved someone but was being forced to be with someone else, I'd probably act in a similar way. Even though she did love the Chairman, she probably should have tried a less scandelous way to break away from Nobu. Her actions could have ruined her entire career, and she'd never be able to be involved with the Chairman.
1. Sayuri has tried to change her life many times through out her life. She had tried to run away when she was first brought to the okiya and She slept with the minister hoping it would change Nobu's mind in becoming her Danna.
She had done all of this in hopes that her life would become better.
Her life was placed in the hands of a few different people. People that had changed her life forever. The 1st was Mr. Tanaka. He helped chiyo when she fell and cut her lip on a rock. When he found out that her mom was dying, he talked her dad into selling her to a geisha oikya. Of course, Chiyo knew nothing about this until it had already happened. then, after Chiyo had met the Chairman, he had told Mameha about "a young girl with gray eyes" and had wanted her to help her become a geisha. She didnt know about this either until the very end of the book.
Mameha also had a huge role in Chiyos life. She Became her older sister and helped her become one of the greatest geisha in Gion.
2. I think what she means is that everyone faces struggles and obstacles, no one persons struggles affects any other person. There are so many people in the world. people die and people are born. And when that happens, life keeps going. Just like events. They come and go and eventually, are somewhat forgotten.
My Question:
In the begininng of the book, Sayuri says "That afternoon, when I met Mr. Tanaka, was the very best afternoon of my life, and also the very worst afternoon".
Why do you belive it was her best and worst afternoon? in what ways has mr. Tanaka affected her life?
i believe that Sayuri was resposible for the way her life turned out because she made all of the choices. i think other people played a role in influenceing her choices especially the chairman because he talked Mameha into taking Sayuri as her little sister which is why she became a geisha. i also think that because she chose to disobey others and chase her own destiny instead of allowing others to run her life that she was in control of her destiny.
i think that in her last sentence
Sayuri means that if you are having trouble or problems in your life then we need to remember that someday they will be over and we will be happy again.
Do you think that Sayuri was right to betray Nobu by sleeping with the minister or was there a better way to keep him becoming her danna?
I am answering Caitlin a's question.
In the end of the book Pumpkin sabotages Sayuri by purposly disobaying her favor. Do you think that those years of being Hatumomos little sister turnes Pumpkin into her?
I dont think that pumpkin turned into to Hatsumomo but I think that she believed that Sayuri betrayed her and that she took Pumpkins rightful place and so she took revenge on her by the ways that hatsumomo taught her.
Ian G.'s Question:
Is what Sayuri did to Nobu morally wrong? With all of his help and friendship throughout the entirety of her career, was she inappropriate in deliberately planning to sabotage their relationship in the end?
my Response:
Nobe has helped Sayuri more than any other man. He bought her gifts, offered to be her Danna so he could help support her, and helped her through the war by giving her a place to stay. He also really cared about her. But she didn't want his help. She had no feelings for him and she belived that she could survive without his help. Therefore, she slept with the minister in hopes that he would get angry and never speak another word to her.
I belive that what she had done was wrong. He really wanted to help her and care for her, but she didnt want someone with a scared face and a missing arm become her danna. If he had a perfect face and both arms, she would have, more than likely, stayed with him.
"Sayuri states in the last sentence of the novel: “Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper". What do you think she means by this?"
I think that she is saying that her life has gone by too fast. but our lifes do go by fast . 4 years ago i was a freshman and every new year of school the days go by faster and faster wich is nice becouse then I have 1 less day of school to deal with . and then you see some thing relly funny and you rember it like it was yester day but it was rely 3 or 4 years ago .
when you sit down and rely think about your past however old or young you are some times you muder that was a long time ago. and it acthuley was a long time ago.but we are fortunite we have most of our lives in front of us. and we shouldent just let our lives wash away like sayuri said kind of. we should keep a reckord like a journal for our memories,our lives our family"s.
WWI and WWII seem like a long time ago and NAM as well but desert storm and the war we are in now was not to long ago. I think that the memories of WWI are fadeing away slowley as well as every thing else in this world. we kneeed to rember so we dont forget. we dont kneed any more mistakes but we are only human we will continue to forget and make new mistakes.
My question
why are people so eager to forget the past. why are people so eager to forget everything.and rember nothing.
1. Sayuri places a huge amount of credit in her life to destiny, when in reality she has a whole lot more power to control her life than she realizes. It is true that it was basically out of her hands when she got sold to the okiya, as well other situations later in her life. But while a person cannot always control events around them, they always have the choice of what they will make out of them. Sayuri assumed, after her failed attempt to run away from the okiya, that she was destined to be a geisha. But who is to say she could not have succeeded in escaping on her next attempt? Whichever path she ended up choosing in the end, though, she would never be able to avoid heartache and obstacles. Yes, everything happens for a reason. That is no excuse, however, to give up one's dreams in place of their assumed "destiny".
2. Although some instances will always leave a mark on a person, pain fades over time. Sayuri looks back at her life and realizes that no matter what, everyone goes through highs and lows. Even though an event may seem insurmountable at the time, the importance of it will eventually be lost. In her old age, Sayuri also realizes just how similar everyone in this world really is. Everyone is dealt their share of pain as well as joy; sometimes just trying to get by, and other times not wanting life as they know it to end.
My question:
Everyone seems to believe that Pumpkin is just jealous of Sayuri getting adopted, and that is why she destroyed Sayuri's plan to get to the Chairman. If this is true, then why did she help her status as a geisha only a short time earlier when she told Sayuri about Hatsumomo's lie to the doctor?
My Response
to Ian G.'s Question:
Is what Sayuri did to Nobu morally wrong? With all of his help and friendship throughout the entirety of her career, was she inappropriate in deliberately planning to sabotage their relationship in the end?
Yes, I believe that Sayuri's deed to deter Nobu from being her danna was morally wrong. She obviously knew this or she would not have stated, on page 461 "...and now to sustain my hopes, would I commit an abhorrent act?" It is hard to say whether the sin of betraying a loyal friend is better than living a lie, which is what she would essentially be doing if she became Nobu's danna. I believe, however, that her plan to deter Nobu forever was a desperate attempt to change the course of her life. It was a risk which, in the end, seemed to pay off.
1. Sayuri's fate was not her own doing. From the first paragraph to the last she is being led around by others. She tried to defy her predestined fate of becoming a geisha by running away but she was unable to do so. If she was able to control her own destiny she would have run away with her sister long before she became a geisha. Since she was caught, she was forced to be what she became. Sayuri was even forced into giving gifts to Mr. Nobu and Dr. Crab to boost her popularity. Mameha was pulling the strings the whole time she was a geisha. She helped Sayuri, yet she was much more than a guide to her. She was essentially Sayuri's puppet master. Thus, Mameha used Sayuri's beauty to gain recognition and praise to Sayuri's name. All of it was to manipulate mother to adopt her. This saves everybody from Hatsumomo's wrath. Sayuri was but a tool to do this. Needless to say it worked, yet Sayuri was just there to be used by Mameha. Sayuri really had no say in what she became. All she could do was go along for the ride.
2. I believe Sayuri meant that every thing comes to end and in the end it does not matter. Everybody has struggles. Everybody has Triumphs. When we die where do they go? They are lost to time. They are smudged on the "paper" and no longer eligible. They are forgotten and do not really matter. She is saying that everyone struggles, everyone suffers, and everyone has triumphs, yet in the end they all mean the same thing. They mean nothing. What she means by "wash" is they all blend together and wash away. All of the success and all of the torture is washed away and mixed with everybody else's struggles and successes.
My Question: How do the events in Sayuri's life change who she was? From when she was a girl to the last words of the book. In what ways did she change?
Deschamp's Question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
Response: Sayuri had such a desire to be with the chairman because he showed her kindness in the world. She was so beaten down by the events in her life that she seemed to give up. The chairman showed her kindness. This gave her purpose to becoming a geisha. She wanted to be his geisha. Her desire turned into a little obsession but he gave her purpose.
Ithink that Sayuri did control the way her life turned out and was responsible for it, only because she told herself that she was going to met Chairman again and held on to that. As well as doing things when told not to, like when she was told not to run away but attempted to do so anyways. Attempting to run away was so she could be free and live her life without anyone controlling any part of it. If she had gotten away, I don't think she would of known where to go or what to do because everything that she had done was because she was told to do it as well as how to do it.
Sayuri's life was controlled by others before becoming a Geisha, and more when actually being a Geisha. Before being a Geisha she was a servent. Being a servent in its self is working for someone and doing as they command you to do, meeting their needs and wants. After becoming one of the most successful Geishas, Sayuri had a less control of her life. I don't even think that she had any control of her own destiny beacause when Pumpkin was supposed to bring Nobu she brought Chairman.
2. I think that Sayuri means by this is that everyone is going to struggle and find many different obstacles in live,it doesn't really matter how you get there as long as you do. It's kind of like what my parents keep telling me "life is going to get harder before it gets easier, and it's going to get worse before it gets better", its just saying that life itself has it's ups and downs, everyone is going to have to face them sooner or later,and at the end of the struggle,and dilemma we all end up living life the same.
My Question:
Through out the whole book Hastumomo was always bringing Sayuri down and treating her really bad, she seemed to be more like that towards Sayuri more then any other girl in the house. Why do you think she was like that towards Sayuri? Was it because she felt like Sayuri was a threat to Hastumomo from the start or just because she felt like she was superior to everyone esle?
Response to Deschamps15's question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
When Sayuri first met the Chairman I think she feel in love because he had given her a hankie with some money in it. With the money that he had given her she took it to a praying well and had prayed to one day meet with him again and kept the hankie, she took it with her everywhere she went.
Nobu did do and provide alot for Sayuri, and cared for her alot, but Sayuri had already fallen for someone else and wasnt willing to let that go. Someone cant really help how one feels, Im sure that if it was her choice on who she falls in love with it would of been Nodu because of what he had done for her. Is not a matte of who had what or more, its what she felt inside.
1)When i think of Sayuri's life there are many different players who made it happen the way it did. I think early in the book she is basically at the hands of her elders and fate. She had no role in her selling to Mr.Tanaka and being resold to Ms.Nitta. After being established in the okiya and going to school to become a geisha is when i believe she started to get her hands in her own destiny. Sayuri decided she would be with the Chairman in the end by becoming a geisha and it didnt matter at what cost.
If Sayuri would have ran away she would have never ended up with what she really wanted nor would she have became one of the best Geisha in Japanese history. There is no person that had a action in this to influence it...it was pure fate. I believe that Sayuri began to control her own destiny by sleeping with the Minister to deture Nobu from herself. "...i brought my hands to his shoulders to push him away...but then i imagined Nobu as my Danna, and a life i would live without hope".
2)I believe that what Sayuri has finally come to realize is that all people are basically the same and all people come across the same problems in life no matter where in the world they are located. but really these problems that seem so big at the time really are so small and in the end all work themselves out. Just as she had longed to be with the Chairman on the inside but was forced to show feelings for Nobu...these problems just worked out in the end.
Blake Clements Question: What do you think Mameha motives were behind helping Sayuri become a geisha? Was she more interested in destroying hatsumomos carrer or was she just helping Sayuri because Chairman had asked her to? Was she helping Sayuri out of her own kindness?
My Response: I believe that Mameha had multiple motives behind becoming Sayuri's older sister. First i believe she hated Hatsumomo and wanted to do whatever to bring her down for the Kimono incedent. Also I believe she was a good person and saw that Sayuri had talent but was under a sort of haze because of Hatsumomo's hate for her. So she thought she could help her out a bit.
I dont think the Chairman gave any indication that he somewhat bribed Mameha to become Sayuri's older sister.
My Question: When Sayuri and her sister first arrived in Gion they were split up. Sayuri longed to be with her sister so much she risked everything by trying to run away but as the book goes on, she is never heard about again. What do you believe happended to make Sayuri just stop thinking about her? What do you think happened to Sayuri's sister?
Sayuri did not control her own life anymore that each of us today has control over our own life. She did have many choices that played a major role in the direction of her life, but I believe that these choices were the most control which she had over her life. For example, after Mameha made the choice to be her older sister, Sayuri made the choice to pursue this gift and make more use of her life then just being a simple maid. She chose to be the best geisha so that she might one day meet the chairman.
There were also many things that happened that did not have to do with her choice, but were placed into the hands of fate. When she tried to bring jealousy into Nobu by being with the other man, she instead degraded herself before her only true desire, the Chairman. But even after this happened, we see that her life goal, her own destiny to be with the chairman still existed and still was fulfilled. I do not believe that any of these, Sayuri’s own actions, or another’s actions, or fate played a larger role in Sayuri’s future, but rather I believe that all three played in perfect harmony together in determining her destiny.
“Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper”
The definition for struggle is to fight, when triumph is to prevail. When Sayuri compared these words to watery ink on paper, I believe she had a very deep meaning with many explanations for it. One she meant was to show that triumphs and struggles eventually become one together, almost “soaking” into each other, just like watery ink on paper. That even though one may triumph through many struggles; struggles will always seem to meat triumph once again. I also believe that she wanted for one to see that we are like the paper, when the watery ink is like the triumphs and struggles; that these two things eventually soak into us, forming us, and always staying with us to remind us of our defeat and yet victory in life, playing together hand in hand, almost in perfect harmony for one’s own good. This poetic phrase has a meaning worth a thousand words, and I believe are very thought provoking.
My Question:
“…We don’t become geisha so our lives will be satisfying. We become geisha because we have no other choice.” (pg. 344) When Sayuri found out that Nobu would probably be her danna, she deeply desired more; love. Mameha told her that the life of a geisha wasn’t always satisfying, that sometimes there was no choice. What do you think is correct to say about a geisha life? Should Sayuri have a choice in who she marries? Or should she just go with the wealthiest and most successful offer, even if it may not include a true love relationship?
Response to Nicholas Giorgetti:
I do believe that Sayuri was morally wrong for what she did to Nobu. Even though she did love the Chairman so much, and only thought of Nobu as a friend, she could have handled this in a more pure and righteous way.
At the same time, I understand that the way Sayuri handled this may have been the best way she could have thought of being a geisha, knowing how easily men can be defeated by jealousy. I believe that Sayuri wanted to bring jealousy into Nobu’s heart, knowing that jealousy can sometimes turn to anger and eventually eat away any love inside ones heart.
Even though I do not agree at all with Sayuri’s way of handling this whole situation, I still do believe that this way may have been the only option that she could see to completely work out for her benefit.
1) Sayuri believed she had full control over her fate, but soon found out that her destiny was pretty set in stone. When she tried to alter her life by doing ‘stupid’ things such as running away or having relations with the minister, she always failed in some way. Especially after her mizuage, her choices had little control, 9 times out of ten it was either Mother’s or Mameha’s decision in which she was forced to abide.
So often her life’s path was sculpted by another, to begin with she was sold by Mr. Tanaka to the Nitta okiya. Soon after her life was again changed when she met the Chairman, although some of that shift was herself, this event would carry on to another more significant alteration. The Chairman soon after chiseled away a little more when he asked Mameha to become Sayuri’s older sister. Not to mention Pumpkin very nearly ‘ruined’ her life by leading the Chairman to the warehouse to find Sayuri lying with the minister. It was only because of the Chairman and his philosophies that Sayuri was saved from the gnarly hands, or hand, of Nobu. It just goes to show you how much control others have of your fate.
2) When Sayuri claims, “Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper” (499). She means exactly what she says; no matter what we do to change our fate, in the whole scope of things our lives are a mere flash in the pan and they are all intertwined in a very sporadic and unpredictable pattern. This thought provokes in me a mental image of a conglomerated mess of kite string that is matted into a sturdy fabric. There is no way to avoid the fact that at some point on that string of our life, no matter how long it may be, we will cross paths with every other string in the mess. In a very thought provoking proverb Sayuri tells all that fate is inevitable and there truly is nothing we can do to fully alter our life and re-path our string.
My Question:
What truly fueled the Chairman’s decision to tell Nobu of what he witnessed in the warehouse? He claims that it he decided to when Pumpkin tells him of Sayuri’s plan, but is that really true? Did he know that Nobu would be so angered, was this his only shot at becoming Sayuri’s danna?
Jake Wallace's Question:
Do you think that Sayuri was right to betray Nobu by sleeping with the minister or was there a better way to keep him becoming her danna?
Sayuri has no more right to betray Nobu than a spouse has to be betray the other. I feel that she was in the wrong by committing this immorality, however I do not see any way around it. Nobu was extremely gracious and protective of his dear Sayuri; do his actions bind her to him for life though?
There was no better way to handle the situation, than Sayuri did. Although her plan nearly backfired it was probably the only way to get what she wanted, the Chairman. The negotiations between Nobu and Mother were out of her hands, so her actions on Amami were the only things standing between her, the Chairman and Nobu. Looking back she had no other choice, she had already mentioned her disinclination towards Nobu, however Mother rejected it and claimed he as a good man. What Sayuri did on Amami sealed her fate.
I think Sayuri had a very difficult time adapting to her new life. She was sold to an okiya at a very young age, separated from both her parents and her sister, and then she was basically enslaved to pay off her debt. These are all terrible things for a child to deal with. Most children would develop serious mental problems from all of this, but Sayuri learned how to be strong throughout all of her struggles. I do believe Sayuri has grown responsible for her own life, since she really doesn't have anyone else to depend on. For her entire childhood, she was being told what to do, and she never really had control of her own life. She made many risky decisions, like attempting to run away numerous times, but all attempts failed. I think over time, she realized that her life could get better if she stayed at the okiya.
Sayuri never made the decision to become a geisha, she was forced into becoming one. I think once she became Mameha's apprentice geisha, she realized that she wasn't being treated as a slave, and that Mameha truly cared for her. I think that if Mameha didn't become Sayuri's big sister, she wouldn't have met her destiny to become the greatest geisha, but she would have turned out being a slave for the rest of her life. I believe that her ongoing fued with Hatsumomo gave her inspiration to become a great geisha, but also be true to herself.
2. I think Sayuri's quote at the end of the novel means that we are all simular in the ways that we are born, we live, then we die. What we chose to do with the time we have, decides how we are remembered. We are only human if we experience pain, and make mistakes, which are all things that we can grow and learn from. In our society, Sayuri's life could be viewed as a very difficult one, since most of us will never experience as much pain as she did.
My question is: Hatsumomo was so envious of Mameha, she destroyed her kimono. Do you think Mameha was (in a way) using Sayuri to gain revenge on Hatsumomo? Or do you think Mameha truly wanted the best for Sayuri?
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
My Response: At the time that Sayuri met the chairman, he was the only person who was truly kind to her. He was really nice and encouraging to her, basically telling her to keep her chin up and stay strong. Her encounter with him gave her hope, and also made her more motivated to become a geisha. I think she realized that if she became a geisha, then she would get to see the Chairman again. She kept his hankerchief as a symbolic reminder of his presence, so that she would never forget him.
Though Nobu appeared to care for Sayuri, he seemed kind of greedy. It seemed that he was only interested in the reputation that came marrying Sayuri. In return, Sayuri's feelings for Nobu weren't as strong as they were for Chairman. The Chairman was really her first true love, and that could never be replaced. I think the Chairman had true feelings for Sayuri, which he probably didn't know how to express right away. That's one thing that Nobu didn't appear to have for Sayuri, which is why Sayuri was in love with the Chairman.
1. I believe that Sayuri could have done more to improve her situation. There were certain things that she had no control over like being sold to the okiya, but I feel that she did not make the best of her situation. Trying to run away hurt her reputation tremendously.
After she put her mind to it and committed to being a geisha, in my mind she still did some pretty stupid things. As much as she hated Hatsummomo, I think she could have done a better job at getting along with her and there for making her life go smoother. She could have done a better job as a geisha if she wasn't always worried that Hatsummomo was going to show up and try to ruin her life. Another key mistake that she made was having relations with the minister.
2. I think that Sayuri means that no matter how famous, rich, powerful, poor, or insignificant we are, when we die, life goes on for other people. Eventually, we will just end up being a faint memory, just like watery ink is on paper.
All though Sayuri tried several times throughout the novel to change her destiny, this is one of those things that can't be changed. Life ends very similar for most people and for those of us still alive... life goes on.
My Question: Does what Sayuri did to Nobu reflect how she was raised living in the same house as Hatsummomo? What did Sayuri see in the Chairman that she didn't see in Nobu?
Heather J's Question: Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example, sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
My Response: I cannot blame Sayuri for wanting to change her life so bad. After all, she had no choice on what she was going to be when she grew up. Growing up without parents and in an environment such as the one in the okiya can have a devastating effect on a young child. With that being said, I think that the smart thing to do would have been trying to make the best of her situation by not acting irrationally and doing things like running away. But again, I cannot say for sure that I would have acted in a different way given her childhood situation.
1. I think that alot of Sayuri's destiny was placed in other peoples hands for example in the book on page 480-481 the Chairman says "Sayuri, I am the one who asked Mameha to take you under her care. I told her about a beautiful young girl I'd met, and asked that she help you if she ever came upon you in Gion. I said I would cover her expenses if necessary. From what she's told me over the years you would certainly never have become a geisha without her help."
So you can see that alot of her destiny was placed in the Chairman and Mameha's hands.
Sayuri obviously had a part in her own destiny more so when she decided to have sex with the minister. This was sort of the turing point to have the destiny she desired. Her destiny would not have been possible with out this action because Nobu would have become her danna. Then she could never love the chairman in fear of a conflict between Nobu and the Chairman. On page 486 the Chairman said "Nobu gave you up,Sayuri. I've taken nothing away from him.When I saw you there with the minister,"After pumplkin told me you'd intended the encounter for Nobu's eyes,I made up my mind to tell Nobu what I'd seen. And when he reacted so angrily... well. if he couldn't forgive you for what you'd done, it was clear to me he was never truly your destiny."
2. When Sayuri says this last line in the book she means that every one has there struggles when they are actually in the moment the struggles feel so prominent in thier life. But in reality problems come and go and people keep moving on. The things that used to seem so important in their life all mix together as memories that they look back on.
Deschamps15's Question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
My Response:
I think the reason Sayuri had such a desire to end up with the Chairman was because he was the first one to show kindness to her he saw her potential before she was even a geisha. A big difference from Nobu who wouldn't have stoped on a bridge to comfort a little girl Nobu only had intrest in her when she had become a geisha. Nobu gave her many worldly things like combs and other physical presents. The Chairman gave Sayuri much more powerful gifts like simple kindness hope and a chance to become a geisha when no one else belived in her. These were the gifts that made her love the chairman. For example on page 131 Sayuri says I wasn't thanking him for the coin or even for the trouble he had taken to help me.I was thanking him for showing me something besides cruelty could be found in the world.
My Question : Throughout all the drama that Sayuri has gone through in her life ... how did she fell about her life as a Geisha . Is that what she really wanted ?
1) I think that in the begining of the novel Shayuri put everything into her destinys hands. She believed she had no control over where her life would end up. That many others had control over her life like Mother and Mamema but she had no choice. As the novel progreses she begins to realize that she in fact does have control over her destiny and her happiness.
Sayuri is responsible for her destiny when she created the plan to upset Nobu so much that he would no longer want to be her danna. I believe this was the turning point in the novel when she accutally in a sense gains her indepence in creating her fate. I think that she had no clue what would happen after she suduced the Mininster but put the rest of it into fates hands.
2) I belive that in the last sentence in the novel Sayuri is talking about ones life stuggles and how no matter what you do they will never go away. They will always be a part of you and eventually blend together with other people and their triumphs and stuggles just as ink would on a watery paper.
I think that Sayuri realizes that many people will play a role in your life and others have an impact on your life. Whether or not you let others stuggles and triumphs consume you and let it take control of your destiny is something that you have to figure out. I believe she almost went through with becoming Nobus danna because she knew the struggles and triumphs he has faced and felt responsible for making Nobu happy. I think she realized though that it is her that she needs to make happy.
Blake Clement
What do you think Mameha motives were behind helping Sayuri become a geisha? Was she more interested in destroying hatsumomos carrer or was she just helping Sayuri because Chairman had asked her to? Was she helping Sayuri out of her own kindness?
My Response:
I believe that at first Mameha had helped Sayuri beacuse the Chairman had asked her too and also because she knew Hatsumomo lived in the same Okiya and perhaps becoming her older sister and having Sayuri adopted by the Nitta's that infact this would put in end to Hatsumomo's carreer.
I believe as Mameha's and Sayuri's relationship developed Mameha become very fond of Sayuri and did things not beacuse she was obligated to or to get back at Hatsumomo but to help Sayuri. I think that she had Sayuris best interests at heart. Mameha was still very kind to Sayuri even after Hatsumomo was out of the picture. I think she went beyond her duties as a sister to insure Sayuri's future, which leds me to believe that Mameha helped Sayuri out of kindness.
My Question:
Do you think that Pumpkin would have acted as Hatsumomo if infact she hadn't become Pumpkin's older sister? Do you think that Pumpkin would have become good friends and stayed good friends with Sayuri if Hatsumomo wasn't in the picture? Or would Pumpkin still feel as though Sayuri took her place in the Okiay?(473-474)
1. In the beginning of the story Sayuri didn't have a choice about what happened to her. Her dad sold her to Mr. Tanaka and he gave her away to the Nitta okiya. She didn't have control over that but she did have control over other things. She decided to run away from the okiya and she also made the choice to be with the minister.
I think that when someone else made choices for her everything turned out alright, but when she made a choice it was wrong and it didn't turn out how she wanted it. I think that if Sayuri would have had total control over her own destiny it would have all turned out bad. If she would have succeeded in running away she wouldn't have become someone. I think she would have gotten married and had lots of kids and would have just stayed home. It sounds cruel to sell your daughter and give her away, but in the end it was the best for her. I think her dad really thought about what he was doing and it sounds strange but I think he did it because he loved her.
2. I think she is trying to say that we are not forever. We all eventually die and somewhat get forgotten. We shouldn't feel better than other people because we have accomplished more than others. In the end when people die they don’t take anything with them. Like what Sayuri said we can only keep them alive inside of us.
Heathers question:
Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example, sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
My answer:
I think she was tired of everyone telling her what to do and people deciding what her destiny was suppose to be. I think she wanted to decide on her what she wanted but she couldn't just speak up, so she did with actions.
She couldn't say she didn't want to be with Nobu and really wanted to be with the Chairman. Nobu and her mother were the ones who decided if she was going to be with Nobu or not. That's why she gave herself to the Minister because she knew that if Nobu found out she did this he would not want to be or know anything about her and maybe still have a chance to be with the Chairman.
My question:
Do you think Pumpkin turned into Hatsumomo after being with her for such a long time? Do you think she took the Chairman only because she wanted to get back at Sayuri or maybe she had some interest in the Chairman herself?
There were several different contributors to Sayuri's fate. In the beginning of the book, Mr. Tanaka played a major role by taking her out of her home to become a geisha. This was one of the major turning points in Sayuri's life. Without this critical moment, Sayuri would not have met the people so important in her life, and would never have traveled so far in her lifetime. She would have been a wife and a mother in Yoroido but for the role of Mr. Tanaka in her life, she experienced a full, rich life. The Chairman was also a critical character in her life, starting at the time at the bridge where Sayuri fell in love with the Chairman. Although all these people contributed to the progression of Sayuri's life, Sayuri, of course, was the main contributor. She chose to become a geisha after meeting the Chairman, and by going to New York, and her encounter in the theater with the minister to make Nobu jealous, led to the Chairman becoming her Danna. So in conclusion, I believe Sayuri had as much control over her destiny as had all the other people who had come into her life. Sayuri States "Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper" I believe this statement means that while one is going through a certain struggle in life, at the time it is the most important thing in their life. But through time, the struggles become less and less important to you and eventually you entirely forget about them. For instance, Sayuri had been completly absorbed in Hastumomo and her attempts to destroy her career. However as Sayuri matured and grew older, we hear less and less of Hastumomo until she is completly washed away out of Sayuri's memory.
Nik Coleman's Question:
Hatsumomo was so envious of Mameha, she destroyed her kimono. Do you think Mameha was (in a way) using Sayuri to gain revenge on Hatsumomo? Or do you think Mameha truly wanted the best for Sayuri?
In the end of the book, The Chairman tells Sayuri all the things so important in her life that she had never known. He tells her how he had contacted Mameha and told her to take Sayuri to make her one of the greatest geisha in Japan. I believe that Mameha really wanted to help Sayuri, and at the same time, crush Hastumomo. If she hadn't have wanted either so badly, I don't think it would have worked out so well.
My Question:
Why do you think Hastumomo was so competative? What do you think happened in Hastumomo's life to make her so selfish, and competative and untrustworthy? Did Hastumomo really hate Sayuri? Or was she just jealous of her good looks and hard working spirit?
1. I think that the only way that Sayuri really controlled her destiny, was by hanging on to the thought of the Chairman. There is no way that she could have got herself into the life of a geisha, if it weren't for other people in her life. If Mr. Tanaka hadn't sold her to the okiya, then she never would have become a geisha; if Mameha and Hatsumomo weren't rivals, Mameha would never have become Sayuri's older sister. This is why i believe that Sayuri did not do that much to control her own destiny.
I do think that by holding on to the Chairman, Sayuri was able to control a small portion of what would happen to her. The memory of him is what finally made her want to come back to Gion, and her love for him is what made her betray Nobu.
2. I think that Sayuri's last sentence in the novel is meant to show that, no matter what kinds of challenges you overcome in your lifetime, there will alwyas be greater ones, and eventually, you will forget about them and they will disappear into your memory.
My Questioin:
Hatsumomo and Sayuri were rivals, but they were also alike. As Sayuri said, Hatsumomo had loved once too, just like she loved the Chairman. Do you think what happened to Hatsumomo was fair? Was she really an evil person, or was she just trying to survive like Sayuri was?
Deschamps15's Question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
My Response:
I think that Sayuri had a desire to end up with the Chairman, because she was in love with him. That day when she was a little girl and she met him on the bridge, she saw a man that had a lot of kindness in his heart, and those feelings grew over the years as she matured into a woman.
It is true that Nobu did a lot for Sayuri, and the Chairman did very little, but Sayuri was already in love with the Chairman, and I don't believe that she could have had those feelings for anyone else.
I don't think that the Chairman had something that Nobu didn't, other than Sayuri's heart.
Kari's Question:
Do you think the Chairman told Nobu about what he saw on Amami (Sayuri and the minister) to warn Nobu, or to gain a relationship with Sayuri? Was his intention to warn a friend or solely to prevent him from becoming her danna?
My Answer:
I honestly believe that the Chairman told Nobu about what he saw that night to warn a friend. But in some ways I'm sure that the Chairman was happy that the ties between Sayuri and Nobu were finally broken because he could finally have the chance to be with her as her danna. I think in some ways he told Nobu to gain a relationship with Sayuri, because now that Nobu was disgusted by Sayuri; the Chairman could finally tell Sayuri how he had felt over the past 18 years.
I don't believe that the Chairman would tell Nobu just to intentionally prevent him from becoming Sayuri's danna, because he owed so much to Nobu and didn't want to hurt him; but he also saw his chance to be with Sayuri. So he took the chance and in the end everything worked out perfectly for both him and Sayuri.
My response to Tanner Mitchell's Question: Does what Sayuri did to Nobu reflect how she was raised living in the same house as Hatsummomo? What did Sayuri see in the Chairman that she didn't see in Nobu?
I think that maybe part of Hatsummomo's childish nature may have rubber off on Sayuri and that may have made her act more spoiled and want what she almost knew she couldn't have.
On the other hand it seems like most of it would be the fact that when she first was starting out she lost all hope on the bridge that one day and it ended up being the Chairman who was there to turn her mind around if it wasn't for him than she may not have been a geisha. So I think that maybe she just had her mind set so intently on being with him that it more or less tore her apart.
1. In her younger years, Sayuri resisted her destiny and believed she was in control. However, there were few things in her life that she did have power over. She didn't like the way her life was going and fought against it. This only made her life harder and harder until she finally accepted her life. The life she accepted was the life of a Geisha. She found something she can strive for, and she finally began to be happier. However, it wasn't until Sayuri chose to go with flow of her life that things began looking up for her.
It was all about Sayuri's attitude through out her life that determined how successful and happy she was in her life. Whether you believe in destiny or not, the main thing that affected Sayuri's life was her attitude. At first she had a dry dreary outlook on life and because of it, her life was hard. Once Sayuri began findding bright spots in her seemingly dark world, she began to be more and more positive. It was this positive attitude that turned her life around and made her successful.
2. Sayuri is implying with this quote that actions a small as a drop can spread through a wide spread area. One action that was small but had a big affect on Sayuri's life is when she cut her knee as a young girl. Small children cut their knees, but this changed sayuri's life forever. She met Mr. Tanaka which led to her being sold to be a geisha which would be the rest of her life as she knows it.
My Question Is: When Pumpkin brought the Chairman instead of Nobu to discover Sayuri and the Minister, Sayuri had questioned weither or not Hutsumomo had passed on her evil side to Pumpkin. Did Hutsumomo pass her evil side down to Pumpkin?
I am Answering: Do you think the Chairman told Nobu about what he saw on Amami (Sayuri and the minister) to warn Nobu, or to gain a relationship with Sayuri? Was his intention to warn a friend or solely to prevent him from becoming her danna?
I think the Chairman had both of these motives in mind. I think his first priority was to Nobu because he owes. However, he obviously had his feelings in mind as well. So by telling Nobu, he accomplished both.
Response:
Sayuri controlled most of the outcome of her life because she didn't listen to what people said about her future, but changed it into what she wanted it to be. Mameha told Sayuri that nobody could change their destiny but sayuri did not believe this and did what she wanted, becuase of this her life turned out how she wanted it. The only control she did not have was when she tructed others to do what she asked, like when she told pumpkin to bring nobu to the theater and she brought the chairman.
Sayuri says this because she struggled so much in life and had many lows and highs but in the end they all fade away and she is left with nothing but a memory, and finds herself at the end of her life much too quickly. She wants the reader to see that life is short and not to worry too much about the bad times because they will be gone before you even know it.
Qusetion:
When Chiyo arrvived at the okiyo why was Hatsumomo afraid of her potential when she was just a girl from a fishing village? Why was Hatsumomo not afriad of Pumpkin?
Response to Drew Runbergs's Question:
When Pumpkin brought the Chairman instead of Nobu to discover Sayuri and the Minister, Sayuri had questioned weither or not Hutsumomo had passed on her evil side to Pumpkin. Did Hutsumomo pass her evil side down to Pumpkin?
Hatsumomo turned evil because she had been let down like Sayuri had almost been. Pumpkin was let down when Sayuri was adopted instead of her, this caused Pumpkin to want to get back at Sayuri and bring the chairman instead of nobu. Hatsumomo was responsible for breaking up Pumpkins and Sayuris friendship, because of this Pumpkin took not getting adopted harder than she would have if she would have still been friends with Sayuri. So Hatsumomo was indirectly responisble for Pumpkins evilness.
1) I think that Sayuri didn’t really have control of her life when she was a little girl. Sayuri was forced to leave her parents in Yoroido and becoming a geisha. In her childhood Sayuri had listened to a cruel geisha named Hatsumono. Hatsumono’s cruelty and jealousy towards Sayuri made her life miserable. Since Sayuri had to do whatever Hatsumono said, that got her into debt. Sayuri as a little girl has made bad mistakes but she didn’t understood the meaning being a geisha until she got older. Her mistakes got her into a lot of trouble that caused her not being a geisha instead being a servant.
When Mameha propose to Mother and Granny that Sayuri becomes a geisha changed her life. Mameha wanted to be her big sister; she believed that Sayuri could be the greatest geisha in all times. Sayuri did control her life when she became geisha. Sayuri didn’t obey anyone. Sayuri thought that if she slept with the minister she would better her life. Sleeping with the minister did help her even though it was against geisha rules. At the end Sayuri’s ended up with the chairman but she risked a lot getting there…
2) I think that what she means by the quote is Sayuri's meaning is that everyone just becomes alike. You try not to make the same mistakes others committed but it always turns out just like alike. Life is just making a living and then we all die someday. No one is different from others, if we all really think about it we have the same dreams and want the best in life.
Question:
Why did Mameha have so much interest in Sayuri? Why did she believe that Sayuri could be the best geisha in all times?
1) In the earlier stages of her life Sayuri had no control over what happened regarding her being sold to a geisha house. Sayuri also had no control over her slave labor, being forced to do whatever she was told.
It was only until Sayuri grew up and became a geisha that she had control over her life using her actions. With her newly aquired freedom of choice she now had control over her future, and what happened to her.
2) By stating “Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper” Sayuri means that even some of the biggest accomplishments whether recognized or not will fade away with time.
My Quetion:
What drove Sayuri to run away from the geisha house, and how did she recover from this incident.
Chris Edwards Quetion: When Chiyo arrived at the okiyo why was Hatsumomo afraid of her potential when she was just a girl from a fishing village? Why was Hatsumomo not afraid of pumpkin?
Responce: Hatsumomo was afraid of Chiyo and not Pumpkin because she saw that Chiyo could be greater than her, therefore she wanted to shoot down Chiyo so she could remain the head geisha.
Deschamps15's Question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
I think that Sayuri desire was to end up with the Chairman. That day when she was a little girl and she met him on the bridge, she said ever since that day she saw things differently. She understood that her really family wasn’t going to be there for her since they are gone. Sayuri didn’t have anyone, the chairman was kind to her that made her had another persuasive about life since no one ever saw her as a woman but as a careless girl.
Growing up Sayuri developed more feelings towards him, she always said that she wanted to meet him again and kept his hanker shift by her heart. It is true that Nobu did a lot for Sayuri. The Chairman didn’t do much but Sayuri was already in love with the Chairman. I don't think that the Chairman was any better that Nobu , it’s just the fact that she loves the chairman.
1.Sayuri was responsible for her own future. Some of the actions she made when she was little and when she had grown-up had changed her future. One of the mistakes she made when she was little was trying to run away from the Okiya. One of the mistakes she made when she was older was falling in love with the Chairman. That led up to a whole lot of stuff. The first one was loving him when he hadn't even bought her.
2. What I think she means by that statement is live the life that you want. But it really wont matter what path you choose. Sooner or later your life has to come to a screaching halt. Not all people live the same life. But it always ends the same.
My Question
Why do you think that Sayuri tried to change her life everyday. Why couldn'e she except the life she had.
1) I believe Sayuri's life, in this story, was controlled by "destiny". Destiny was a theme that cannot be ignored throughout the book. Her life was predestined to end up with the Chairman; hense the "I fell toward the Chairman just as a stone must fall toward the earth". Destiny led her to the Chairman; this can be seen when Sayuri was seducing the Minister in her attempt to rid her life of Nobu and Pumpkin brought the Chairman instead. Even though her plan went completely amiss, the Chairman still came to Sayuri to confess his love and what he did for her secretly throughout their lives. Other ways you can see she was not in control of her life was that she listened to an almanac that told her when to do what, and that the chairman paid for her Geisha training...she couldn't have done that without the Chairman. She was indeed a petal thrown into the stream.
2. When Sayuri says that struggles and triumphs bleed into a wash, I think she is saying that both struggles and triumphs will be in our lives and will wash together to help write out our lives. She was defined by her struggles and her triumphs, such as being a maid for plenty of years, and the being a Geisha, they both helped her meet the Chairman in the end.
My Question:
Do you think Pumpkin's actions were justified? That she had the right to try and ruin Sayuri's life? If the book was from Pumpkin's perspective would we feel hate towards Sayuri?
And now for my answer to another Ashley Jacobson's question.
In the begininng of the book, Sayuri says "That afternoon, when I met Mr. Tanaka, was the very best afternoon of my life, and also the very worst afternoon".
Why do you belive it was her best and worst afternoon? in what ways has mr. Tanaka affected her life?
First of all I think Mr. Tanaka had changed her destiny most heavily; without Mr. Tanaka she would never had gone to Kyoto or the Nitta Okiya and felt so much pain and yet so much happiness. I believe that the day Sayuri met Mr. Tanaka was the worst day in a sense it led her to feel abandoned, scared, lost, detached from her sister, mad and of course sad all in one day (the day she was sold to the Nitta Okiya). And yet because of Mr. Tanaka she felt so much happiness; the day she became a Geisha, the affect her beauty had on the people surrounding her, when she reunited with the Chairman and he became her Danna. I believe it was the worst and best day of her life because it led her to Gion, where Sayuri experienced the best and worst moments of her life.
1. Sayuri was responsible for her life, but fate and others was a big part of her life. When she was sent to the okiya, she was told not to run away. There were many rules, but these rules were to keep her safe. This is why she was responsible. She disobeyed some of these major rules. She tried to escape the okiya, but simply fell and almost killed herself. Hatsumomo and many others weren’t much help however. Hatsumomo was more trouble than anyone else; she was always getting Sayuri into trouble. Having Sayuri do calligraphy on Mameha’s kimono got Sayuri into horrible trouble. So, fate itself did its part. But if Sayuri had listened to the rules and if Hatsumomo hadn’t been so much trouble, fate my not have been a major part in Memoirs.
2. I believe that Sayuri’s last quote means so much. Sounds as if she is saying that things that happen in life simply happen. It could be a good deed, or something that went horribly wrong, but what happens…happens. You can’t change the past or predict the future. If something happens you have to eventually forget it, whether you want to or not. Sayuri does eventually do this, she forgets about her mother and the house on the cliffs, and she forgets about her sister and focuses on becoming a geisha. So, I believe Sayuri means that, “Things that happen are in the past, but they simply fade away”.
My Question:
Except for the fact that Sayuri was a fisherman’s daughter, did Hatsumomo really have a good reason for hating Sayuri?
(1) The balance between destiny and one's free will is always 50-50. One can look at the future in the sense that whatever you do regardless of what it is, will all point toward one fixed destination. Then there's the belief that one has complete control of their future. They will be the deciders of whether or not their life is "successful." Considering that destiny is an unanswerable question, in Sayuri's case I will say that both destiny and free will are present. For a portion of Sayuri's life everything regarding her future was handled by someone rather than herself. For example, she had no control over her abduction from Mr. Tanaka and her binding to the Nitta okiya. If she had a decision she would have most likely stayed in her tipsy house. Although she would soon become an orphan if that was the case, I do not believe that she would want to go to an okiya if she knew what was in store for her. However, in the midst of all of her misfortune, she did a number of things that she believed could change her fate (I realize this is a contradiction, because how is it that someone can believe in changing a permanent fate?). Regardless, one of the best examples of Sayuri attempting to put the hammer down was when she seduced the Minister. That move was responsible for flipping her life around pi radians. Perhaps it was her "destiny" to be with the Chairman after all, or maybe it was her swift decision making that created the foundation of her tender situation called life.
(2)In this excerpt, Sayuri is illustrating that the past fades away with life. Sayuri had overcome an absurd amount of obstacles and eventually received what she desired. Her main point, I believe, is that just because something bad happens, doesn't mean that the world will stop turning. Unless of course, that something is a collossal meteor that hits our earth causing it to spin out of it's rotation. Anywhom, in the words of Bob Marley, "every little thing, is gonna be alright."
My question: If it's a common misconception that Geisha aren't prostitutes, then what can a mizuage be considered as? Is yen for virginity only tradition, or is it something more?
@Ian's question
"Is what Sayuri did to Nobu morally wrong? With all of his help and friendship throughout the entirety of her career, was she inappropriate in deliberately planning to sabotage their relationship in the end?"
One could say that what Sayuri did was morally wrong, but who could blame her? If she had chosen to become Nobu's danna, then she would have lived the remainder of her life unhappy for the benefit of kindness. However, I do think that her plan to sabatoge Nobu was wrong. I'm not sure if being forward with Nobu would have been a better choice, but at least she wouldn't have done something "unforgiveable." The Chairman's relationship with Nobu was a major obstacle as well. Considering they were friends, if Sayuri hadn't slept with the Minister then her chances of being with the Chairman without doing something unforgiveable would have been slim.
1) If we are presuming that destiny exists in this novel then Sayuri had no control over the outcome of her life at all. She could have altered the course that her life followed to get to its destination, but nonetheless, she would have always ended up in the same spot. Throughout the majority of her life she was unable to make decisions for herself, beginning with the abduction by Mr. Tanaka. Sayuri attempted to change her fate various times, but ultimately she did not control the outcome. For example, when she decided to let the Minister go down on her she was expecting Pumpkin to reveal this to Nobu. Though in reality, she brought the Chairman. Disregarding details, this betrayal allowed her to become closer to the Chairman. This provides supporting evidence that despite her efforts to alter her future, she had no control. Then again, just because she has no control over her life doesn’t mean destiny is at work. It could simply imply that that a series of cascading events lead to a certain conclusion, and much like a mathematical equation, if one variable was altered then the “answer” would be different. Therefore, no one really knows why her life turned out how it did. It just did.
2) She is expressing her ability to use similes all the time, good job! Anyway, Sayuri is implying that despite struggles in life, it will not matter in the end. Even if Mr. Tanaka did not take Sayuri from her home she would undoubtedly experience struggles, if not die alone and starving as an orphan. Her point is: the past does not matter; nothing can be done about it. Memories will live on. This isn’t as dramatic as Jim Morrison’s explanation of the end, oh well.
Response to Ryan G’s question: If you use Webster’s definition of prostitution then yes, the mizuage is an act of prostitution, and the okiya is her pimp. However, this act happens once and occurs following a ceremony. I believe that the mizuage is a symbolic gesture to send the apprentice into full Geisha status. In a sense, the woman is not being sold for money, but more for a symbolic reason. It will also raise her status within the world of Geisha.
My question: Eventually Sayuri got what she wanted. Assuming that destiny exists in this novel, did she receive a "happy ending" because her beginnings were tough, or is it a random coincidence?
I think that she was driving her destiny the whole time. The only part were she wasn’t, was in the beginning when she was being sold, and when she was being a slave. Once she was on her way to being geisha there was no stopping her. I think once she became geisha she was finally in control of her life, and I think it stayed that way until the end.
My question is, do you think the thought of seeing her sister again also drove her to being successful? Do you think that she thought she might some day see her sister again?
Deschamps’s Question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
My response is. She was in love with him, and he was the first person that ever really cared about her since she was sold to Mrs. Nitta. I think that Mr. Nobu was good to her, but she was simply in love with the chairman.
1.Sayuri seems to do quite a bit to control her life until she finds out that it was the chairman who made it possible for her to become a Geisha. It seems as though she feels proud of all the obstacles she has had to hurdle, but once she discovers the Chairman’s role, it seems to open her eyes to how much everything just fell into place. Even when she takes matters into her own hands and seduces the Minister, an unforeseen event occurs, taking away her claim that she, by taking action into her own hands, finally got the Chairman.
In conclusion, I think that Sayuri herself is responsible for about 30 to 40 percent of how things ended up. However, Mr. Tanaka, Mother and the Chairman were so influential in her life, from taking her to Gion to providing the necessary motivation for Mameha to take Sayuri as her little sister, provides the other 60 percent.
2.The message Sayuri is trying to convey is no matter how inconceivable your troubles are or how glorious the triumph, in time the pain and joy fade away into barely recognizable blotches. When you do look back you remember them just as events, but no longer is there emotion or passion attached.
Ian Gressett's question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
My Response:
First of all, Sayuri had such a desire for the Chairman because he paid attention to her when she was just a maid. Secondly, the reason was most likely because he had two arms and a handsome face. Although she did not pick the Chairman because of his looks, it certainly did help that he was normal and not deformed.
However, we wonder when Sayuri said if Nobu had talked to her on the bridge that day might she have been infatuated with him instead of the Chairman. Who knows... I think Sayuri attaches more value to a person’s personality than their looks, and that’s what the Chairman had was a charming personality with a disposition as sweet as the snow cone he bought her.
My Question:
Did your opinion of Sayuri change after she deliberately slept with the Minister just to relieve herself of Nobu’s dannaship? Did this leave a foul taste in your mouth to hear that she did this inconceivable act to one of the men who loved her dearly? Do you think it was justified by the fact that she had always loved the Chairman?
Should she have let Nobu be her danna or taken the course of action she eventually took? And lastly, could she have done it in a way to minimize the pain caused to Nobu?
(1) I think sayuri's destiny was found from what other people did. By her getting sold and my meeting the chairmen. She did the work but people showed her the way and how to be a giesha.
(2) I think she is saying nobody care what you did to get were you are. they just care about where you are at now and what you are going to do. Then it will end when you dont expected or when you dont want it to.
My question: Why did sayuri
fall in love with the chairmen so fast?
What do you think Mameha motives were behind helping Sayuri become a geisha? Was she more interested in destroying hatsumomos carrer or was she just helping Sayuri because Chairman had asked her to? Was she helping Sayuri out of her own kindness?
My responce:
I think it started by her wanting to destroy hatsumoms carrer. Then I think she started wanting sayuri to do more then just to be better then hatsumomo and to be one of the great giesha.
1. Sayuri attempted to have an influence on how her life would turn out, but I believe that she didn't have as much to do with it as people say she did. Right from the start, she was taken away from here tipsy coast house to begin training on becoming a geisha. Her parents had control of how her life would play out from the start. Even though she tried to make a different in her life, by trying to escape the okiya, she still failed, and spent many years of her life under the control of Mother. From the beginning of her Geisha years to when she finally realized the true feeling of the Chairman, she did try as hard as she could to one day be with the Chairman, but the only reason was because of him and his decisions. Even though almost all of her life people have influenced her life, Sayuri still tries to change her future.
2. When Sayuri finishes off the book by saying those words, I believe she is trying to say that everyone in the world goes through the same problems and achievements that life throws at them, but no matter what people may think, it's all going to end at one point, because life doesn't last forever, and in the end nobody will remember, rich or poor, people all die the same.
My Question:
What if Sayuri (Chiyo at the time) never went out that day she met the Chairman? Would her life be the same? Would she have strived to become a geisha and to one day become somebody important? or would she have had no goals, and be a maid her whole life?
Parkers Question:
What do you think it was that finally made Pumpkin snap? There were plenty of events that Pumpkin could have sabotaged Sayuri's career. Why did she choose this one?
My Response:
From the beginning of their young lives, Pumpkin and Sayuri were best friends, but when Sayuri was taken by Mameha to become her little sister, Pumpkin was stuck with Hatsumomo. After years of being with Hatsumomo, I believe that Pumpkin was building her hatred for Sayuri, because of her success, and when Sayuri took the okiya from her, that was when she began to realize that they weren't friends, and when she saw that Sayuri had such strong feeling for the Chairman, she would hurt her as much possible. Hatsumomo influenced Pumpkin too much, that's what I believe.
1. I feel Sayuri had the biggest impact on her own destiny, it was her destiny not Mamehas or Hastumomos' every little thing she did (or large)changed her life the most. i.e. when sayuri ran away she was on her way to becoming a geisha but when she ran, she had what seemed lost all hope of that all because of Her actions. however many people did play major roles in altering her destiny, for instince the one moment she met the Chairman, it led her on to become a successful geisha with the help of Mameha of course.
2. i feel what Sayuri means is later once its all said and done who you were, and what you did, how 'cool' one was, will all be meaningless. the emotions one feels presently will be different then the emotions one will be feeling 1 or 10 years from now.
My question : After reading the entire book, what do you think is the most outstanding moment in Sayuris' carreer as an aspiring Geisha? and why do you feel that moment was the most oustanding of all?
1) Sayuri was partly responsible for the way her life turned out. However, many of the events in her life she had no control over. When she was a girl, she tried to take control of her life and run away. She was caught, and this event taught her that “we are no more in control [of our lives] than a beetle which our foot [steps on]”. Sayuri learns from Mameha that “[you] must use whatever methods you can to understand the movement of the Universe and time your actions so that [you] are moving with the currents, not fighting against them (p. 147)” Throughout the novel Sayuri obeys the wishes of Mother and Mameha. Sayuri lives her life being controlled by others, but she believes that one day, the Chairman and herself will be brought together by fate. However, when Nobu tells her that the time for him to become her danna has come, she decides to take control of her own destiny and change it so that she still has a chance of ending up with the chairman. Sayuri does not feel that she could bear to live a life without hope. By ruining her chances with Nobu, Sayuri is able to be with the Chairman. However, Sayuri did not plan for the Chairman to catch her with the minister, but when he did it created an opportunity for him to tell her how he felt about her, now that Nobu did not wish to have anything to do with her. Sayuri’s and the Chairman’s lives were intertwined from the day they met at the stream. Although she did not know it until later, the Chairman was the one who made it possible for her to become a Geisha. When Sayuri learns this, she sees that she had very little control over her destiny. Near the end of the book, when Sayuri and the Chairman are together, she compares herself to a droplet of water, saying “[the water] seemed to tell the story of my life. It fell through empty space, with no control whatsoever over its destiny…(p.489).” As she gets older, Sayuri feels more and more that her life was controlled mainly by fate, and not her actions. She feels that it was her destiny to be with the Chairman, and says, “I fell toward the Chairman just as a stone must fall toward the earth. When I cut my lip and met Mr. Tanaka, when my mother died, and I was cruelly sold, it was all like a stream that falls over rocky cliffs before it can reach the ocean (p. 498).”
2) In the end of the book when Sayuri is reflecting on her life and says, “Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper (p. 499).” There are several ways this might be interpreted, but I think that Sayuri is saying that, in the great scheme of things, one person’s struggles and triumphs are small, and eventually everyone’s life will come to an end. She is saying that however important a hardship or triumph seemed to her at the time, looking back it is not very significant. Sayuri means that everyone has struggles and triumphs, and that no persons are more important than another’s. I think Sayuri is humbled in her old age, and is saying that her life was no greater than anyone else’s.
MY QUESTION: What is the significance of water in this book? What do the Japanese believe water symbolizes about personality? How does Sayuri compare the events in her life to that of a stream/river? How does the fact that Sayuri has so “much water in her personality” affect her life?
Ian’s question:
Is what Sayuri did to Nobu morally wrong? With all of his help and friendship throughout the entirety of her career, was she inappropriate in deliberately planning to sabotage their relationship in the end?
MY RESPONSE:
What Sayuri ‘did to Nobu’ was not morally wrong. Sayuri did not wish to hurt Nobu, but she also did not want to live a life with out happiness. Sayuri had a choice: to make Nobu happy or to make herself happy. When she is on the plane, thinking about becoming Nobu’s danna she says, “…could i do such a thing to Nobu? What a horrible way to repay his kindness. But could I bear to live a life in which my hopes had been extinguished forever? (p. 461)” Sayuri realizes how much Nobu has done for her, including saving her from the war. However, this does not mean that she should disregard her own feelings to please him. Sayuri has lived her life at the will of others, and has never followed her own wishes. She was able to endure this only because of her hope of being with the Chairman. Sayuri could not have simply said that she did not want to be with Nobu, because Mother would have forced her to. She knew that the only way to free herself of Nobu was to sleep with the minister. Sayuri lived her life always pleasing others, so i think it fit that in the end she finally please herself.
1)
I think that Sayuri was the one responsible for the way that her life turned out, like for instance when she was sold to the Okiya as a little girl she was already on the bad side of Hotsumomo and I think that she could of done a better job of just leaving her alone enough to get on the good side of her instead of making things worst for her. Because I mean as much as she hated hotsumomo if it would of gone better it could have set a better life in the long run for her.
She also was responsible by that she did what everyone told her not to do and one of those things is to stay at the Okiya and not try to run away but she didn’t listen and tried it anyway. Sayuri had thought that if she ran away that she would be a free person again and not have to worry about anything. I think that even if she had gotten away we would have never known how her life would have turned out.
She was also told not to have any personal relations with anyone unless she was a danna and got paid for it. But she also did that anyway not knowing if her plan was going to work. The thing or person that she was trying to reach was in fact the Chairman and that would have never happened if it wasn’t for the Minister incident.
I think that all she was trying to do is make her life better but it didn’t go her way.
2)
I think what Sayuri is trying to say, is that everyone has problems weather you’re rich or poor and that they come and go. Nobody has a perfect life because that’s not the way life is because life is not perfect because you can do something and think its right but then when another person comes in and does the same thing they could feel as if it is wrong.
Also that if someone has struggles and triumphs, that they are not going to be there forever and that they come and go, yes they will be there for awhile but as things and life moves on, people forget and when that happens you pretty much start all over again.
My Question:
When Sayuri had met the Chairman for the first time when she was a little girl, do you think if she had never met him she would have ended up being with Nobu? Or just focusing more on becoming a geisha?
Heather’s Question:
Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example, sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
My Response:
I think that she wanted to change her destiny so much because she didn’t want to become a geisha that was just the role that got picked for her, and that’s what she was stuck with, she wanted hers to be different. I think that she wanted to just be free and be able to live her life the way she wanted and not the way that she is was going to be trained to do.
Because I think that she has a different mind set then that and that’s why she tried to run away and even sleep with the minister just all to have a better life even though it was a big risk she didn’t care, she did it anyway.
1. I believe that without Sayuri's strong will she would not have made it as far as she did. Although fate brought her into many different situations, it was up to her to make the best of it. A great number of times throughout Sayuri's life, she could have given up and settled for something less, but instead she took what little was given to her and succeeded beyond what was thought possible. During the later years of her life though, Sayuri believes that her life fell into the hands of destiny. Although she tries to manipulate it into what she wants, everything fell into place in a completly different way then she had expected. So in conclusion, I believe that both fate and Sayuri's strong personality shaped her life into what it became.
2. When Sayuri states, “Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper”, I believe that she is saying that everyday we go on living our lives, and what may seem like a mountain to us now, is only a pebble when we look back on our lives. Each day we face our own set of struggles, triumphs, and accomplishments, but no matter how big or small, eventually every life comes to its end, and we "wash" away from this earth. I however do not believe Sayuri is saying that what we do with our lives does not matter. Her life is an example that no matter what is thrown our way, we have the ability to do what we choose with it.
My Question:
Do you believe that Sayuri's love for the chairman gives her the liberty to have disregarded Nobu for his kindness?
Kari's Question: Do you think the Chairman told Nobu about what he saw on Amami (Sayuri and the minister) to warn Nobu, or to gain a relationship with Sayuri? Was his intention to warn a friend or solely to prevent him from becoming her danna?
People often seem like they are doing the right thing for the right reason, but often have different motives behind their actions. We find out that the Chairman has always had feelings for Sayuri, but had kept his distance because he also knew how Nobu felt. Time was running out for the Chairman to express what he felt to Sayuri, and he took the chance that was given to him. Although it hurt Nobu, I am happy that true love prevailed in the end.
Jacob Adam’s Question: After reading the entire book, what do you think is the most outstanding moment in Sayuris' carreer as an aspiring Geisha? and why do you feel that moment was the most oustanding of all?
My Response:
Well, I would have to say that the most outstanding moment in Sayuri’s career would have to be the first party she went to, with Mameha. To me it is the most outstanding, because it was her first geisha party that she had been invited to. It was a chance for her to show off what she has learned. Hatsumomo wasn’t very pleased because she hates Sayuri, so it is good for Sayuri to make it there. Also, it is a big part of her career it gets her started. Best of all, she gets a Kimono out of it, her first party. So that is what I would have to say, the party. It was a great first chance to her career. Everyone has some first thing that gets them started in life.
1)
I think that Sayuri's destiny was really two sided. For example, in the beginning of the book when she first met Hatsumomo, Hatsumomo told her to stay out of her things and she didn't. She was in a conflict with Hatsumomo from day 1. In contrast on page 480-481 the Chairman said "Sayuri, I am the one who asked Mameha to take you under her care. I told her about a beautiful young girl I'd met, and asked that she help you if she ever came upon you in Gion. I said I would cover her expenses if necessary. From what she's told me over the years you would certainly never have become a geisha without her help." So, I think Sayuri's so called "destiny" was in the hands of both her and the people around her.
Obviously, when Sayuri was a little girl she couldn't help that her father sold her to Mr. Tanaka. But some of the things she did have control of, like working hard at her geisha skills was very relevent.
2) When Sayuri states this line in the book, I think it means that no two people are alike, we all have our strengths and weaknesses and we all have to fight our own battles. Everyone has their own battles to face now and then. So, in all actuality people are diverse, but at the same time people are all the same.
1 - Sayuri beleived that she could control her life and destiney, and in fact she could. Staying in school and deciding to become a Geisha pushed her to be who she is now. I dont think that she realized how big of an impact the chairman had on her life. If she had never met the Chairman she wouldn't of become a geisha and would have probably never had the chance to be sucessful.
2 - I think she means that everyone has struggles in life and no matter if your given the oppertunity to succeed or not, you can still succeed in your own way. When she says "...all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper” I think she means that no matter what happens in life negative or positive it all doesnt matter in the end.
MY QUESTION: Do you think that Sayuri strived to be the best Geisha she could be because she wanted to be with the Chairman or because she wanted to change the way she was, like she did often in the book?
ANSWERING Kenny's QUESTION
When Sayuri had met the Chairman for the first time when she was a little girl, do you think if she had never met him she would have ended up being with Nobu? Or just focusing more on becoming a geisha?
MY ANSWER: I think that Sayuri probably would of ended up with Nobu. When she was first becoming a Geisha and men were bidding on her virginity, she didnt know alot and in some ways was ignorant. The Chairman affected her life in many ways by giving her hope and without meeting him she would of ended up with Nobu.
1)I personally believe that Sayuri is responsible for half of the way her life turned out to be. Just like Taylor said, she didn't choose to be a slave nor a Geisha, but she didn't obey what she was told neither.She made her life much harder than it should of been. First off, she tryed to have a really close relationship with one of the top guys, which was not okay. She should of obeyed and did what was asked of her. She was constantly risking so much at so many diferent times. Running away has to be very hard to go through, cause getting caught you know there will be some consequences following. But luckly for her she managed to get free and ended up with the chairman.
Sayuri went through a lot of obstacles in her life. She was sold by her own family. Which is very hard to think that a your very own parents could do such a thing. Then soon after that her parents died, and she was put in the okiya before she could become a Geisha which they did not treat her well at all. Just like a few people already stated, her life was put in a couple of peoples hands. Those of Mr. Tanaka and Mameha.
2) i think that what Sayuri is trying to say is that eventually everyone is alike. No matter what you do or what paths you may take in life. You can try and make your life different than everyone else, but it always plays the same ending.You are born,go to school,get a job,get old,and eventually die. Its just the game of life. Wheather you want to play it or not.
My Question:
After seeing and reading why Sayuri chose some of the paths that she took, like running away, disobeying, ended up being with the chairman, do you agree or disagree with the outcome? Do you think that if she would of never of met the chairmen she would of been with Nobu?
Deschamps15's question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
My Answer:
When she first met the Chairman, she fell in love. He had given her something very special to her. Which was the hanky that had money it. That was something that she was not used to. Making her feel worth something. It's not that Nobu didn't provide enough or too much for Sayuri, she had already fallen in love with someone else. And when one falls in love you cant just let something go that means so much to you. The chairman just had the certain special love to offer Sayuri and she had already accepted.
Bosko's Question:
When Sayuri and her sister first arrived in Gion they were split up. Sayuri longed to be with her sister so much she risked everything by trying to run away but as the book goes on, she is never heard about again. What do you believe happended to make Sayuri just stop thinking about her? What do you think happened to Sayuri's sister?
My response: In the beginning of the book, Sayuri and her sister were very close. They could't stand the fact of being split up. But, the reason I think Sayuri stopped thinking about her sister might be because of Pumpkin. Pumpkin was like a sister to Sayuri and they were always together. As for Sayuri's sister, I have no idea what happened to her, she may have become a geisha just like Sayuri in a different town, but I don't know.
My Question: In the begining of the book Sayuri and Pumpkin were the best of friends, but towards the end of the book their friendship diminishes. What do you think is the reason that their friendship diminished? Explain.
1. I think that the decisions Sayuri made during her life determined the outcome. Although people and circumstances dictated much of Sayuri's life, she decided to make the best of it. So I think that it was a mix between the two. She didn't have any say in being taken away from her home and being sold to the Okiya, but she did decide how hard she wanted to work to become a good geisha. At the end of her life though, Sayuri believes that it was fate that brought her and the Chairman together.
2. I think that Sayuri means that we all go through different things in our lives, but in the end none of it really matters because just like everyone else our lives fade away. No one's struggles are greater than the others, because in the end we all look back and they seem so small in the bigger realm of things.
My Question:
What do you think Sayuri's life would be like if she had to live out her life as a servant in the okiya?
Yesenia's Question:
Why did Mameha have so much interest in Sayuri? Why did she believe that Sayuri could be the best geisha in all times?
I think that Mameha wanted to make Sayuri a good geisha because she could see potential in her that would make her better than Hatsumomo. Besides Sayuri's beauty, Mameha could tell that she was very clever. If Sayuri could be a better geisha than Hatsumomo, then she would be defeated, and Mameha would get her revenge.
I believe that everyone has at least some control over their own fate. In Sayuri's case she had only a small amount of control in her own fate. The other people that helped her life along were, Mr. Tanaka, the Chairman, Mameha, and Hutsumomo. They forced her to do things that she never dreamed that she would and also encouraged her to be the person that they all knew that she could be.
Even Hutsumomo believed that she would become a very great and productive geisha even if she never did say it out loud. Hutsumomo was part of Sayuri becoming a great success because Sayuri did not want to become like Hutsumomo and be bitter at everything. This drive was only part of the push that helped Sayuri to become as successful as she did, but it was not the strongest drives. I would have to say that the strongest drive was her meeting the Chairman (pg. 127) he gave her meaning and showed her that she could one day become something beautiful. Going through everyday life would have been hard for Sayuri and if not for the Chairman's influence she would not have become geisha. (pg.480) He used his influence on Mameha and asked of her that she would take Sayuri up as an apprentice. Mameha is another influence that helped Sayuri along with her career. She told her everything that she knew about being geisha such as; how to speak with her eyes to different types of people, (pg.184) the importance of dance and how to entertain men that were important. Mameha not only taught her the ways of geisha but also was her friend. This does not often happen such as in Hutsumomo and Pumpkin's case becoming a sister for an apprentice geisha is often a way to make money.
In the last sentence of the book I believe that Sayuri is saying that even though we struggle at things whether they are beneficial or not they soon go away and not even remembered by people. This happened with Hutsumomo and how after all of her accomplishments she was not remembered after some time elapsed. I believe that this happens with everyone and that they should enjoy their accomplishments when they happen.
If given the chance do you believe that Sayuri would have gone from her home village to become a geisha?
Bekka's question) Nobu helped Sayuri during the war by giving her a place to live and work with the kimono maker. After the war her informs her that he now needs her help. Do you think that he could foresee the ruin of his company and knew he would need her help, or do you think he was genuine in caring for her and just wanted her to be safe?
My reply:
I believe that there are so many good people in the world and it is mostly people that have had bad things have happened to them. Nobu-san has had many bad things happen to him and this has caused him to be cruel. These bad things and his cruelty however did not affect his feelings toward Sayuri and how he treated her.
I believe that what he did for Sayuri was not completely for his own benefit but I'm sure that he must have known at least some that she would be an asset in the future. I mostly believe that Nobu had feelings for Sayuri that caused him to want to look after her during the war to assure her safety. Using his influence for just her was not a surprise however for it was understood that he did not like geisha at all but his feelings for Sayuri was shown at the Sumo tournaments. (pg.242)
1. Sayuri was responsible for how her life turned out for example she went against what people told her not to do. like running away from the okiya but she tried (and failed). She was told not to have personal relation with anyone who hadn't paid for it, such as a danna or her mizuage patron, but she did, the guy who gave her the cheap kimono, and the minster. some of these acts were an attempt to improve her life like trying to runaway, or getting caught with the mnister. So she really thought she could controll her destiny otherwise she might not have done thease things. But when she failled running away she was to for the rest of her life, litteraly to be a house maid untill she met the chair man and he got Mameha to be her older sister so this was in fates hands and she was rescued from being a house maid for the rest of her life and the minister incident she happen to be on an island with a theater that she just saw not even 2hours ago when she asked pumpkin to bring Nobu but she brought the chairman mabey a good thung because nobu might of killed her or the minister
2. I think that what she means by this is that whatever you are endouring no matter how painful the sorrows will diminish and spread out causing them to be less severe and drastic like saying you have alot of happyness at a given moment like after hearing a joke and your laghing so hard you don't think you'll stop but then the joke waers off and you slowly start to settle down. Its like that i think the watery ink is the joke and you are the paper in that point were the ink touches the paper you think you'll never stop laghing but as it bleeds you settle down.
Ian Vanmiddlesworth's question.
Do you think that it was right for Pumpkin to do what she did by bringing the Chairman? She did go through lots of struggles and hardships to but, was it in her best interest to do that? Why?
what pumpkin did wasn't correct since Sayuri asked her to bring Nobu and not the chairman but pumpkin was upset when sayuri asked this favor of her since the last time she asked a favor chiyo(sayuri) became Mameha's younger sister and a Geisha oh... and was adopted by the nitta okiya when hatsumomo had hammerd the idea of pumpkin being the one who would be adopted pumpkin was upset and hated Sayuri so she took the chairman instead of Nobu knowing how much the chairman ment to her but I guess you can say it worked out backwards and might of have been a good thing seeing as much as nobu hated the minister he might of have killed someone but in the end sayuri ended up with the chairman
my question
Do you think pumpkin (hatsumiyo) was ever an option for adoption when chiyo was working as a maid,
or if mother would have given chiyo a second chance so she would be adopted all along??
My Response:
1.)Sold. Bought. Two words that definately don't sound like destiny but were a huge part of Sayuri's destiny. When Sayuri was sold by her parents, her destiny began to lay out. The young girl had more in mind though. She defied most of all the rules that were layed out in Nitta okiya. She, in a way, was trying to set her "fate". She defied what was destined to be untill she finally gave into her training and accepted the fact that she had to let go of the past. Sayuri was destined to be Geisha, but fate got in the way. When she met the Chairman by the stream that special day, fate in her eyes, was layed out. She knew they were meant to be and she locked her heart away and he was the only one with a key. Being Geisha, no man and definately not love was allowed. Sayuri broke that rule in every way possible. She loved Chairman with all her heart and was willing to risk being a Geisha, her destiny, for him. Sayuri was caught inbetween the two, but for the most part, she took matters into her own hands. Sayuri was very free spirit with a strong will and it took a lot to break her down. I believe Sayuri was in control of her actions as a Geisha and throughout her training, but when it came to the Chairman, that was fate.
2.)“Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper” (499).
I believe this is a very wise and mature quote. In life, the trials we face seem almost unbearable at the time, but when we take the time to look back on one such trial, we see how small it was compaired to our life journey. I believe Sayuri was commenting on such events like when she was seperated from her family and then sister, treated horribly by Hatsumomo and unable to be with the Chairman for what seemed like a life time. Living seemed worthless and unfair during these times for Sayuri but she stuck it out and was able to look back and see that each trial she overcame, the stronger and wiser she got. Always look to the future when things get tough because the tough times will pass. Before you know it, you have overcome one struggle and moved onto the next. Some are harder than others, but we all have what it takes within us to succeed the tough times.
My Question:
By placing yourself in Hatsumomo's shoes, can you understand her anger, jealousy and hostility towards Sayuri or was her behavior completely inappropriate?
My Response to Student Question:
Caitlin A.
In the end of the book Pumpkin sabotages Sayuri by purposly disobaying her favor. Do you think that those years of being Hatumomos little sister turnes Pumpkin into her?
I strongly believe that one is always responsible for their own actions. However, our society is so caught up with images, popularity and status that the power of influence is almost too overwhelming to fight off. I think that Pumpkin was greatly influenced by Hatsumomo's anger and tendency to hold grudges and this altered her judgement and point of view. Hatsumomo is a very intriguing woman and i can understand how Pumpkin could have "fallen under her spell," but this is no excuse for Pumpkin's betrayal to Sayuri. Sayuri was always a good friend towards Pumkin, but Pumkin held onto that anger she felt due to Sayuri becoming so successful. Would Pumpkin would have turned out differently if Hatsumomo hadnt been her older sister? This we will never be able to determine, but in my eyes, what Pumpkin did was unforgivable and truly evil.
1) I think that it was Sayuri’s destiny to become a geisha, but everything that she did in training, and within herself determined the magnitude of geisha she would become. Her destiny began directing her life when Mr. Tanaka took her to the Nitta Okiya and brought her from a limited life in her old tipsy home. She was fortunate that the Okiya accepted her, what would have happened if she had become a prostitute as her sister did? Would she still become successful and live a good life? The obvious answer is no, she would have left with her sister and would never have gotten to the same social status she obtained as a geisha. Luckily the Okiya took her in and from there she shaped her own future. She wanted to become a geisha and with the help from Mamiha she became a great and successful geisha.
2) I think Sayuri means that everyone in the world lives with problems and overcoming and building from those problems is what life is. The contents of the trials and triumphs we face are what make us all different. I think she also meant that no matter the stories and things we see and hear they are too often forgotten or disregarded due to the fact that there is always another. I believe as long as the human race exists there will always be an immortal flowing ocean of people’s experiences of trials and tribulations, coming wave after wave crashing into a beach of acknowledgment briefly being seen and understood with some taken and noted, but inevitably washed into an forever accumulating of stories.
My question is how much different do you think Sayuri’s life would be if she hadn’t met the chairman? Would she still be the same successful geisha or would she be less of one and why?
Kev's question:
“…We don’t become geisha so our lives will be satisfying. We become geisha because we have no other choice.” (pg. 344) When Sayuri found out that Nobu would probably be her danna, she deeply desired more; love. Mameha told her that the life of a geisha wasn’t always satisfying, that sometimes there was no choice. What do you think is correct to say about a geisha life? Should Sayuri have a choice in who she marries? Or should she just go with the wealthiest and most successful offer, even if it may not include a true love relationship?
My answer to Kev's ?
I think that Sayuri was rightly upset by having to accept the fact that she would have Nobu as her danna. It is a emotion we all have felt as children and as adults, its when we dont get what we want, we want desert and we get broccoli, its getting something and being stuck with it without any desire of keeping it. It was her culture and the lifestyle that came along with being a geisha that made her stuck with nobu. I think she definetaly should be able to marry whoever she choses but it wasn't what she was given, but she took the matter into her own hands and married the chairman and lived happily with him. Which is good cuz nobody really likes broccoli anyway.
1. Ever since the beginning of the novel, Sayuri believed that she should control her own destiny. I believe that most of her destiny was created by the people around her. When Mameha was told to adopt Sayuri, the long intricate path to the Chairman was being played out. Even Hatsumomo had played a part in making Sayuri successful, by being someone that Sayuri didn't want to be. In that way, Sayuri was a better Geisha, because she knew that she never wanted to be someone like Hatsumomo. Along with Mameha and Hatsumomo and ultimately the chairman, many others played part in her destiny. Everyone from the Barron, Dr. Crab, and Nobu also has important roles in her destiny to be with the Chairman.
She might have had a part herself, but I don't think it was that significant. The only thing she contributed to her future is herself. It is because of her unusual and beautiful figure that everyone thought she deserved to be the best geisha. However if another girl was in her place at the same time, little Chiyo would be nothing special.
2. What Sayuri meant by “Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper” (499) is that everything is interconnected. Everything good and everything bad will come together somehow. It is precisely this that creates a balance in life. No matter how much good you do, or how much evil you do, in the end everything will mix together, and effectively create your destiny. I believe that Sayuri thought that eventhough she betrayed some people, her destiny would be created by mixing the good and the bad. Destiny sees not "good" or "bad" deeds, but just "deeds". What I mean is that it doesn't matter how you affect someone else, it only matters THAT you affect someone else.
bosko's Question:
My Question: When Sayuri and her sister first arrived in Gion they were split up. Sayuri longed to be with her sister so much she risked everything by trying to run away but as the book goes on, she is never heard about again. What do you believe happended to make Sayuri just stop thinking about her? What do you think happened to Sayuri's sister?
I think that it was part of Sayuri's destiny to be split up from her sister. She had great potential to be a geisha, and in a way, her sister was weighing her down from that goal. I think that the reason Sayuri forgot about her sister is because she was moving on with her life, and realized that her future was more important. I don't think that Sayuri totally forgot about her though; she just put her sister on the back of her mind.
I believe that Sayuri's sister is doing okay in a regular okiya, but she is nothing like Sayuri is. She will make okay money, and be fine, but she is WAY sadder about the split between her and Chiyo.
My Question:
Why do you think Hatsumomo was cruel to Sayuri from the start of them meeting each other?
1)I beleive Sayuri had her destiny set in two ways. Yes she did some things on her own but she also went against others orders. Running away from the okiya was her own decision but she was told not to. Her life ecencially started because someone else picked her up. She was reluctent at first but fell into the geisha culture. Loving what she did and doing it well. It wasn't all by herself and thats where her destiny was placed in the hands of others.
2)To me it sounds like shes saying in life we all go through hard times, but they dont always last. We all are different but whether we see it or not, alot of us have the same problems in one form or another. Whether its family issues or personnal trobles we all have them.
Tayler Roland's question:
"How can such a young girl like Sayuri give up so much and risk so much to become a geisha?"
My response:
She really had ntohing else and was thrown into that life. Thinking she was going to be adopted but instead was taken to a whole other town and pulled away from her whole family. I could understand the way she apporoached it all. Running away to find her sister because she was so scared. Hatsumomo spreading rumors and thats exactly all they were, rumors. Sauri learned to not listen to all the rumors and go ahead with her life the way she was being taught and she accepted it. Even after leaving for awhile she still came back looking for the life she used to have.
Response #1
Sayuri was responsible for the decisions she made and therefore controlled about seventy-five percent of her life. Sayuri's last reflection demonstrated that she was content with her life because she met the Chairman and he enriched her life. Early in her life, she tried to runaway, but she failed. Because she failed, she lost her first opportunity to become a Geisha and was forced to live her life as a servant. While running an errand as a servant, she met the Chairman on the street, forever changing her life. Sayuri was fearful of never befriending the Chairman so she decided to become a Geisha.
Part of Sayuri's life was placed in the hands of others and fate. After she lost her first Geisha opportunity, the Chairman worked with Mameha to quietly get Sayuri another chance. The Chairman paid the necessary expenses for Sayuri's training and Mameha provided the training. Sayuri did not know the Chairman and Mameha were influencing the outcome of her life.
Response #2
I believe Sayuri's quote means that all of our experiences in life quickly become a distant memory that blends together. Time passes quickly and events of the past have less daily impact on the lives of everyone involved. We may still remember them and occasionally have a strong emotion response to significant events, but for the most part, they are merely events of the past.
My question:
Why didn't Mameha tell Chiyo that the Chairman had helped her from the beginning?
1. Sayuri's struggles throughout the book aren't always controlled by just her because Mr. Tanaka secretively controlled part of her life. He did many things to help out Sayuri that Sayuri didn't necessarily know about.
She was also always in somebody else’s control a lot of the book. Hatsumomo basically had her to do what ever she wanted Sayuri for. So she never really had chances early to make her own decisions but she wasn't happy with having this forceful life she tried to escape to try and have a more self controlled life.
She was very bothered by not being able to control her own destiny, but basically her life was all planned out as soon as she was sold to be a geisha. There was hardly a time when she had complete control of her life or "destiny".
My Question
Why was Sayuri so obsessed with the Chairman? As soon as she met she became obsessed with him. Even as a little girl and never let him go her entire life despite the age difference. I’m sure every little Geisha has a secret admiration for him but what made it work out between them?
Ian G's Question
Is what Sayuri did to Nobu morally wrong? With all of his help and friendship throughout the entirety of her career, was she inappropriate in deliberately planning to sabotage their relationship in the end?
My response
Sayuri and Nobu had a relationship if that’s what you call it throughout the book. Although it is completely obvious she is never bought into it and still has the chairman in the back of her mind. I don't necessarily think it is wrong because nothing was set in stone and yes I think her plan was to rid the relationship the entire time because if she ever saw an opening for the Chairman there was no doubt that she was going to go for it.
1. Even though Sayuri thought that she had control over her life, i thought that it was the people around her that affected her destiny. On page 480 when the Chairman tells Sayuri " I am the one who asked Mameha to take you under her care...", i think that because of this she became a geisha. If it weren't for the Chairman then she would of been a maid the rest of her life and that is how other people control her destiny.
2. I think that what sayuri means by this is that no matter how big your problems may seem they will eventually fade away like a wave in the ocean. Another thing that she might mean by this is that your destiny is as small in this world as a leaf is in a tree.
My Question:
Even though the Chaiman eventually told Sayuri of his feellings for her, Why do you think he waited so long to tell her?
Answer to randi**'s Question
Everyone seems to believe that Pumpkin is just jealous of Sayuri getting adopted, and that is why she destroyed Sayuri's plan to get to the Chairman. If this is true, then why did she help her status as a geisha only a short time earlier when she told Sayuri about Hatsumomo's lie to the doctor?
I think that the reason Pumkin helped out Sayuri earlier is that at that time she thought she was already gonna get adopted because thats what Hatsumomo told her, but when she helped Sayuri she made her solve her problem so she became more succesfull. I think because of this that she felt she needed to get back at Sayuri.
1. I believe Sayuri was responsible for the way her life turned out because of the way she lived it. Even as a little girl she based the rest of her life to finding the Chairman. I believe thats why she tried to run away, to try to better her life. Thats also why she was with the minister. Who knows how her life would of been if she did run away, or if she hadn't been with the minister. All these things she made happen.
When it came to being a Geisha Sayuri's destiny was controlled by others. Her parents sold her to the Mr. Tanaka and he sold her to the Okiya. And then Mameha coming and being her big sister saved her from being Hatsumomo's slave for many years. Also Nobu helping her during the war and giving her a job while everybody else was getting nuked.
2. I believe that Sayuri ment that no matter how big your problems are that they will eventually go away. That the world isnt going to stop if someone dies, and one good deed wont effect everybody. Everyone goes through a lot of up's and downs. "Success wouldn't feel so good if it wasn't for failure"!
My Question: Why did Pumpkin sabtouge Sayrui's plan to get with the Chairman. Did Sayuri really hurt Pumpkin that bad when she got addopted??
Deschamps15 Questions:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
I think its because he was the first man to help her when she was little and needed someone to help her. She became obsessed and never grew out of it, thats why she didnt want Nobu.
1. I truly Believe, that if Sayuri Wanted something bad enough, she could have achieved it with just her will power, To an Extent that is. Someone decided for her, that she was to be a geisha. Fate didn't have anything to do with that. I don't think fate did much to help her. it was more on her, the decisions, the risks, she took to try and seal her "Fate" were altered by someone else, not fate.
2. When Sayuri says “Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper” I think she means that what ever happens in our life, no matter how hard or easy, how pampered or not, life eventually comes to an end and every struggle we had gone through, is more or less forgotten with time. It's kind of like that saying, "It always get Darkest Before Dawn" Well, no matter how dark things get, the pain will end eventually, the Darkness will cease, and another form will retake it's place.
Im answering Ian G's Question
Q.
Is what Sayuri did to Nobu morally wrong? With all of his help and friendship throughout the entirety of her career, was she inappropriate in deliberately planning to sabotage their relationship in the end?
A.
Well, considering the circumstances, I think it is wrong what she did him Nobu, she led him to believe that she was his, when infact she didnt really feel like that for him. But from the other side, the girl didnt like him, she loved the Chairman and she couldnt help but try and risk her reputation to keep that hope of them two together Alive.
My Question:
Which do you think had a bigger effect on the Death Of Sayuri's Father...Was it the Selling of his daughters, OR the Death of His sick wife?
Sayuri barely ever in her whole life was able to do what she wanted to do. When she was very young her mom was almost dead, and her dad was not going to live for that much longer. She could do nothing about that. Then she got sent off to the okiya. The only thing she did have control over was the chance to take advantage of being taught all of the things you need to know to be a geisha. She was being held at the okiya against her will and she did try to run away with her sister. But after she realized that she has no control of what she does, she decided to suck it up and at least be a very good geisha. Then she ended up being the number one geisha when she got older. Her fate was also decided by the chairmen because her whole life was revolved around her trying to be a good enough geisha for the chairman to fall in love with her. And it all worked out for her.
Eventually she realized that her life was made up of many events blended together and that one single issue would not have made as much of a difference in the big picture as she once thought.
The whole book was telling the story of one geisha, Sayuri. How much different do you think the book would be if it was about Mameha?
Ashley Jacobson's question
If it was not for Mr. Tanaka, Sayuri's life would have been completely different. He changed her whole life by taking her out of her small town, and pretty much making her a slave. She said it was the best afternoon of her life because if it was'nt for Mr. Tanaka, she never would have met the chairmen and fallen in love. It was also the worst because she was sent away against her will to go do work all day every day.
Kari's question:
Do you think the Chairman told Nobu about what he saw on Amami (Sayuri and the minister) to warn Nobu, or to gain a relationship with Sayuri? Was his intention to warn a friend or solely to prevent him from becoming her danna?
My response:
Earlier in the book, the Chairman gave up Sayuri because Nobu took interest on her, and he didn't wanted to take her from him.
The Chairman wasn't warning Nobu, his intention was to help Sayuri. In page 486, the Chairman says to Sayuri, “When I saw you with the Minister, you had a look in your eyes just like the one I saw years ago at he Shirakawa Stream. You seemed so desperate, like you might drown if someone didn't save you. After Pumpkin told me you'd intended that encounter for Nobu's eyes, I made up my mind to tell him what I'd seen. And when he reacted so angrily...well, if he couldn't forgive you for what you'd done, it was clear to me he was never truly your destiny.” By this, the Chairman was saying that Nobu gave her up and that he hadn't taken anything from him.
1.I believe that sayuri has a responsbility in her life and in a way she is in control.. The only thing she is not in control of and I believe that she does not even realize it but the chairman is her main drive in life.. Everything she does in life is for him in hopes that one day she can be with the chairman and tell him her feelings.
Even though she was working for the chairman she put forth a most greatest effort in becoming a geisha and all the people who helped her along the way she would not have become a geisha. But she did have the help and enourmous amount of luck and then her drive got her out of debt and also the most desired geisha. she owes her life to her friends and mameha as well.
2.what sayuri is trying to do is no matter what happens in life whether you are rich or poor famous or unknown all things lead to the same thing .. somethings are unavoidable in life.time heals all as well as talking ...
my question: what was hatsumomos problem ... why was she so angry and jealous?
RE-DONE
1)I beleive Sayuri had her destiny set in two ways. Yes she did some things on her own but she also went against others orders. Running away from the okiya was her own decision but she was told not to. Her life ecencially started because Mr.Tanaka picked her up. She was reluctent at first but fell into the geisha culture. Loving what she did and doing it well. Towards the end she told Mameha that she was done being a Geisha, but Mameha told her it is not their decision to be Geisha, but something we must do.(along those lines)It wasn't all by herself and thats where her destiny was placed in the hands of others. Mameha was there for her guiding her when she first began Geisha training. Without her I don't think she would have gotten far. Hatsumomo was making rumors about Sayuri because she knew she was doing well and didnt want her to succeed.
2)To me it sounds like shes saying in life we all go through hard times, but they dont always last. We all are different but whether we see it or not, alot of us have the same problems in one form or another. Whether its family issues or personnal trobles we all have them. With her she lost her Mother, was taken away from her Father, then seperated from her sister. That would be hard for anyone and Im sure it hapens to children alot these days.
My question:
When reading this bok feelings for Sayuri probably changed in your mind. With all the different events taking place and everything she had done, in the end how do you feel about the way she handled her life?
Tayler Roland's question:
"How can such a young girl like Sayuri give up so much and risk so much to become a geisha?"
My response:
She really had ntohing else and was thrown into that life. What choices did she have? Thinking she was going to be adopted but instead was taken to a whole other town and pulled away from her whole family. I could understand the way she apporoached it all. Running away to find her sister because she was so scared. Hatsumomo spreading rumors and thats exactly all they were, rumors.Telling the Doctor that she was sleeping with other men. Sayuri learned to not listen to all the rumors and go ahead with her life the way she was being taught and she accepted it. Even after leaving for awhile she still came back looking for the life she used to have. Once in America she was doing well and trying to get closer to the Chairman. Doing so she got herself caught up in a huge mess, because of a grudge Pumpkin had kept inside for many years. Thinking she was ruined she still talked with the Chairman and got what her life to her was aimed for.
Sayuri was for the most part in control of her own life. She made the descion to run away right when she got there which didnt turn out to be a very good idea. Yea she would of been free to do as she wants but who knows what would of happend to her, she had nowhere to go. The fact that she was a Geisha she didn't get to control he life fully. Except when she make the stupid descion to go against what she was told not to do is her own fault. (sleeping with the minister). The goal was to make her life better or try and get a better life but it didn't fall into place like she was hoping. Though her plan didn't fall into place like she wanted she still ended up with the chairman.
I think what she was trying to say is that people's past dont matter. It matters where they are at now in life and thats it. All people go through there own struggles just some have more than otheres.
What matters in your life is what effects your life. That works both ways because someones parents die it doesnt effect you cause you dont have that connection with them and its not going to effect you. In the end success or not it does not matter. It matters that you made it to the end and hopefully that blur of watery ink is colorful and jolly
My Question:At the end of the book Pumpkin pretty mcuh stabbs Sayuri in the back. Yeah she did have all that hardship but do you think that was a fair revenge. If this did not happen do you think it would of been made up for?
1)Sayuri had very little responsibilities in the way her life was going to end up. Sayuris life was mostly controlled by her mother. The only part she controlled was her becoming a geisha. Sayuri felt that if she became a geisha it would bring her closer to the chairman.
Sayuri destiny ended up the way it did because of the decisions she made such as trying to run away because she wanted to be free. The other is sleeping with the minister and getting caught by the chairman. If this events didnt happen then she would have never gotten close with the chairman.
2)I think that Sayuri means that everyone has struggles they deal with and eventually as time goes on these struggles will become nothing and turn out to become your greatest acheivment.
I aslo, think she is trying to say that no matter what everybodys mistakes are in life they tie together in some sort of way thats unexplainable.
My question
Nobu gave plenty to Sayuri but she still wanted to be with the chairman. Why do you think that Sayuri would give up on Nobu? After, he saved her from the war and then helped her becoming a geisha again.
Zach Kruchoski's Question:
Why do you think Hatsumomo was cruel to Sayuri from the start of them meeting each other?
My response
I think that Hatsumomo was cruel to Sayuri when they first meet because she could see that Sayuri was going to be a good geisha. So she felt that she was a threat to her and had to ruin her oppertunities to become a successfull geisha anyway she can.
#1) I believe that Sayuri thought that she could control her own destiny in the fact that when people told her not to do something she did it anyway. When everyone told her that running away would only destroy any chance of having a decent life she did it anyway. I think that she only did it cause she thought she would get away.
I also think that Sayuri didn't control a lot of her destiny because if Mr. Tanaka never came to take her from the fishermans' village her destiny would have been a lot different she would have probably ended up marrying a fishman and wouldn't have experienced life the way she did.
I think that Sayuri wanted to contorl her destiny because she never really had a say in it before. Her parents sold her, the okiya forced her to be made, I htink she just wanted to have some sort of control.
#2) I think that she is saying that no matter what happens in life good or bad it will all fade into a memory. so you should make the best of everything so that you have good memories when you look back at your life. I beleive that is the message she is trying to send out.
#3) When Chiyo arrvived at the okiyo why was Hatsumomo afraid of her potential when she was just a girl from a fishing village? Why was Hatsumomo not afriad of Pumpkin? By Chris Edwards
My Response:
I think that Hatsumomo was afraid of Chiyo becasue she could tell she was a intellegant girl and beautiful. Also that she had beautiful blue eyes and in their culture blue was like water and it could washes away earth, and puts out fire. Hatsumomo was fire (bad) and she knew that if Chiyo succeeded that she wouldn't.
The reason that Hatsumom wasn't afraid of Pumpkin is because Pumpkin isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. She doesnt pose a threat like Chiyo does.
My Question:
Do you think that Sayuri wanted to become a Giesha to better herself, prove people wrong, or get to the Chairman?
deachamps15
I think Sayuri wanted to be with the chairman so much because he had helped her out when she was little. He made her feel better when she was sad. Oh, and maybe she thought that he was good looking.
1. Her becoming a geisha was pretty much how her life was controlled. I mean she had the responsibility of how easy or hard it was to become a geisha, and how hard or easy she could make it her responsiblity. But most of her life turned out because of her becoming a geisha. But also because of what the chairman did when she was still little. When she met him on the bridge bought her the ice thing and gave her the money and also gave her his hankerchiff. I believe that part was the main reason she did decide to follow the way of a geisha and also the reason why she succeded so well. I also believe fate had a huge roll in what happend. Why would the factory owner dude come and get her after the war? It was fate. But my main point is i believe her life was in 50/50 control. She had a huge role but so did all the others that were in her life.
2. Why did sayuri base her whole life on the chairman. Was there something special that i missed about him? Also why would she not just tell the chairman of her feeling?
Ians question:
Do you think that it was right for Pumpkin to do what she did by bringing the Chairman? She did go through lots of struggles and hardships to but, was it in her best interest to do that? Why?
3.
My response to that question: I dont think pumpkin did the right thing. I think it was very wrong of pumpkin to do that she had no reason to. Yeah sayuri may have done something when they were younger but why mess with what someones whole life is based around? I personally hate pumpkin because of what she did. Sayuri had alot of feeling for the chairman. But i also dont agree with sayuri doing what she did at all. I think it was both thier faults. Maily pumpkins fault all pumpkin was thinking about was her self and her feelings not anyone elses.
Sayuri, had hopes and dreams much like every one of us. Whats sad is that her hopes and dreams were stripped from her. When you're hopes and dreams are stripped away its most likely for a reason. In the end after the heartache and pain you realize the life you want to live. So Sayuri even though most of the book is trying to find ways to get out of what she is in, she needed to go along with it because who she is as a geisha weather she likes it or not is determined by how much effort and heart you put into it. She was forced to do things yes! But she also had the choice to respect those who were in control, knowing they held her future in the palm of her hands.
Hatsumomo is a character in herself. She irritates me. Seeing her character form in the book was challenging for me. As Sayuri saw that i would venture to guess a part of Sayuri desired not to end up like that. It should have opened her eyes. Im not saying Sayuri's life ended up the way it did because of her lack of effort. Im saying just because she was thrown into being a geisha and forced to live her life a certain way is not the only reason as to why she had such a horrible life. I feel bad for what she went through being sold by her parents, not having anything or anyone to depend on would be horrible. But that makes her a stronger person than i will ever be. So she is a hero in my book.
2. tha statment speaks right to me. What Sayuri is saying is that we all have our fair share of struggles some more than others, some more effective than others. But we shouldn't dwell on what happened to us or how something happened (etc. raised) because once it's done and over with it is thrown right into a pile along with everyone else's who have struggled to survive, or who has had a broken heart. They all are equal. But it's the way we choose to press on after the hurt is long gone that is tricky for Sayuri's sake she has had a bit of deja vu hit her with watching Hatsumomo and spying on her and ratting her out along comes consequences for those actions. Yet that pile of struggles and our triumphs for the moment they last are casted away and never dwelled apon or thought about by anyone but ourselves.
3. My question; Why does the chairman randomly know that Sayuri will be a successful geisha, what are his thoughts towards the geisha's and why is Sayuri such a big interest. Is he attracted to her as a young child, does he feel sorry for her?
1. In some ways Sayuri was responsible for the way her life turned out because she went against what people told her not to do. The acts of trying to run away, and having a personal relationship with someone who was not aloud; they were both acts to better her life in some way. They were just stepping stones to get to the Chairman in the end.
The bidding for her mizuage is also an example of her destiny being placed in someone else’s hands, the Baron and Doctor Crab bid back and forth for quite some time, until finally the Doctor made an offer that the Baron would not try to compete with. Mameha would have rather given it to the Doctor but since it ended up that the Doctor won, she wouldn't have to give it to him unfairly. In the movie Mameha had given Sayuri's mizuage to the Doctor when the Baron was the highest bidder to protect her, Im pretty sure that the same thing happened in the book but since I turned the book in a while ago Im not exactly positive.
2. She is saying that the struggle she went through was soon just something in the back of her mind, and was eventually washed into the past. Everything happens for a reason; and everything that happened in Sayuri’s life was a stepping stone to bring her closer to the Chairman and to a better life.
My Question:
In the end of the book Sayuri's presence was requested at the Ichiriki Teahouse only three days after they had returned from Amami; in Sayuri's mind she thought it was Nobu requesting her to give her the news about him becoming her danna. Why was she so surprised to find the Chairman sitting before her? Why do you think that she was so surprised to hear that Nobu was not coming that evening? What do you think was going on in her mind at that moment? Why?
1. I think that the decisions Sayuri made during her life determined the outcome. Although people and circumstances dictated much of Sayuri's life, she decided to make the best of it. So I think that it was a mix between the two. She didn't have any say in being taken away from her home and being sold to the Okiya, but she did decide how hard she wanted to work to become a good geisha.
At the end of her life though, Sayuri believes that it was fate that brought her and the Chairman together.I also think that this made her life all better because with out the guidence of a Geisha, she was pretty much going to be a slave and work all of her life instead of just those steps to being a Geisha, in the end the outcome was better than being married to a fisherman.
2. I think that Sayuri means that we all go through different things in our lives, but in the end none of it really matters because just like everyone else our lives fade away. No one's struggles are greater than the others, because in the end we all look back and they seem so small in the bigger realm of things.
My Question:
In Sayuri's younger years her parents were in debt and her mother was dying, do you think that Sayuri would of lived a better life in her old village or being a Geisha. Explain why or why not?
Yesenia's Question:
Why did Mameha have so much interest in Sayuri? Why did she believe that Sayuri could be the best geisha in all times?
I think that Mameha wanted to make Sayuri a good geisha because she could see potential in her that would make her better than Hatsumomo. Besides Sayuri's beauty, Mameha could tell that she was very clever. If Sayuri could be a better geisha than Hatsumomo, then she would be defeated, and Mameha would get her revenge.
1) I believe that Sayuri was responsible for her destiny in the sense that she could run away, or choose to make career threatening choices like she did with the minister. However, I think she saw that most of these choices would not lead to a desirable place, or give her a good reputation for that matter. On the other hand, her destiny was very much in the hands of others because her danna would be chosen for her, she would be adopted whether she liked it or not, and again, yes she could find a way out of it, no the results would probably not be good.
I think finally she got so fed up with the tension of things that she surrendered to fate and did what she knew was morally wrong, but true to her heart in the sense that she would not have to become Nobu's mistress. In doing so her personal goal was achieved because she was deeply in love with the Chairman, but only because fate took its course and Pumpkin's hate for Sayuri finally surfaced, the Chairman interpreted Sayuri's action correctly, and then the Chairman acted correctly.
2) With Sayuri's statement about struggles and triumph bleeding into a wash like wet ink on paper, I believe she means that no matter what kind of things you endure in your life, whether they are joyous, solemn, or neutral, in the end they are all still just memories. They are the only things you can take with you into the future.
Even in Nobu's case where he endured scarring and crippling, yes he has to live with those consequences but he will not be pained everyday as if it were a new wound, it is just a memory. Note the title "Memoirs of a Geisha."
My Question:
What do you think it was that finally made Pumpkin snap? There were plenty of events that Pumpkin could have sabotaged Sayuri's career. Why did she choose this one?
Kari's Question: Do you think the Chairman told Nobu about what he saw on Amami (Sayuri and the minister) to warn Nobu, or to gain a relationship with Sayuri? Was his intention to warn a friend or solely to prevent him from becoming her danna?
My Response:
I think the Chairman saw this event as a win win situation. In Nobu's eyes the Chairman would be warning a friend, but in the Chairman's mind he was gaining the ultimate prize. I think he knew that Nobu would take the news this way because they've been friends and partners for years. They can probably read each other like books.
On the other hand, I do believe there was a bit of jealousy between the Chairman and Nobu. The Chairman admitted on more than one occasion that he owed Nobu a great debt, but now that the opportunity presented itself, he took advantage of the situation.
I think that Sayuri had some part in her destiny but when she was a child that she had almost no word in to what she wanted to do. When she was at her new house, she did. She could of escaped with her sister if she didn't fall off the roof. That also could be her destiny to, to fall off the roof. To me there is many ways that she could of done to not be a geisha or be a "bad" one when that guy told her to try on the kimono that was purchased for her. Now if she slept with the guy what would happen? would she be a whore or still have a good reputation? The only reason she had some control was that the Chairman bought her some sugared ice, if he never stopped for her she just might of slept with him or not.
What i think she means by her saying is that no matter what we do soon or a later the past will be unrecognizable and that most of the past is erased and forgotten. There is perfect examples to back this up. The seven wonders of the world. The history was simply forgotten or erased from this world. So what I believe she says here is true because it happens.
My question is simply, What if the chairman never fell in love with Sayuri? or What if she did have sex with that guy who tried to get her to wear the kimono that he got for her?
Caitlin A.
In the end of the book Pumpkin sabotages Sayuri by purposly disobaying her favor. Do you think that those years of being Hatumomos little sister turnes Pumpkin into her?
Yes and no at the same time because she did because of the reason that she became a better geisha than her. Plus she was still young wheen she was following Hatsumomo around. She was probably in influenced greatly by teaching her her ways.
My Response:
1.Chiyo can only be responsible for the choices that she let people make for her. She can't be responsible for getting sold, but she can be for letting mameha give her a new name, "sayuri." I think she would be way happier if she remained Chiyo so that she could remember her parents and I'm sure that the word Chiyo means something special. I'm almost sure she could have made her life a lot better by listening closer to the words of mother. I also think that Hatsumomo could be a valuable person to be friends with, if at all possible.
2. My understanding of it is that the ink represents a bad thing done in someones life and no matter how fast you clean it up the stain will be there, but if you let it dwell there for longer it will only get bigger and worse of a stain.
My Question:
How do you think pumpkin felt about Chiyo growing up as a servant? Did she feel sorry for her or happy that she didn't have to deal with the pressure of becoming a geisha?
My response to Catlin a's Question:
In the end of the book Pumpkin sabotages Sayuri by purposly disobaying her favor. Do you think that those years of being Hatumomos little sister turnes Pumpkin into her?
I believe that even though the action by pumkin seemed harsh, it helped Sayuri become closer to the chairman, by forcing her to tell him how she felt. I don't think that the chairman would be as easy to forgive as he was, but it was a nice way to end her story.
1.Sayuri was resonsible for the part of her life that she could control, although it was not much I think that she disobeyed everything and everyone because it was her way of trying to find herself. She pushed her limits constantly. I believe she thought she controlled all her destiny especially when she did everything she knew not to as in when she tried to run away from the Okiya, and in the end ended up getting hurt by having to be stiched up. She then got with the minister although she knew the rules she was to abide by, yet she broke them because it was her way of making her life better. All the attempts of her trying to control her destiny got her into some sticky situations,letting her confusion of why her life was the way it was get the best of her. She did not know that everyone pretty much fooled her into thinking she was someone although she did not mean anything to anyone except being a good slave.
2.Sayuri's saying I think just means that no matter what happens in her life it only made her stronger as a person. Although there were times when she thought that there was no way out, and no one to run to she took the worst and made it the best for her. I believe that no matter what happens in our lives it all only makes us stronger as a whole. You may struggle until you decide to turn the bad things into a positive experience, but in the end it molds us into who we are as people! I thinks she finally realized that she cannot settle for being a no body, or a slave because she was better than that!
My Question:
Why do you think Sayuri kept striving to become someone other than a Geisha? If she was not a Geisha then who did she inspire to be?
My Response to Randi Brown's Question:
Pumpkin thought that when she gave the information about the Dr. to Sayuri that in turn they could both become successful Geisha's. She never imagined that Sayuri would steal her place as a daughter in the Okiya. Also, Hatsumomo's character surely corrupted Pumpkin into becoming a more jelous person. So in turn it destroyed her true person that lied within herself.
1. The only way Sayuri controlled her destiny was hanging onto the the thought that she could see the chairman once again if she became a Geisha. So really, Sayuri's destiny was in the hands of the Chairman from the day they met. It was fate that led the Chairman to Sayuri that day near the stream. If Sayuri never would have met the chairman, she would have probably some how successfuly ran away and never would have had the life of a Geisha.
Sayuri tryed to control her destiny when she set herself up to get caught with the Minister. But in another sense, her destiny wasn't in her hands at all, it was in Pumpkin's because she was responsilbe for bringing the right person. Even though she went againts Sayuri's word, and brought the Chairman instead of Nobu, it still worked out in the end for Sayuri. As much as Sayuri tried to control her destiny, I think it was out of her reach the whole time.
2. I think what Sayuri's statement means is, it doesn't matter what you did to get where you are today, all that matters is you got there. I think Sayuri is speaking for "average" people, no one cares what hardships they went through, and how they became what they are today. "Average" people don't get books written about them and society doesn't drool over them saying "this person did this and this person did that."
You as an indivual may know what hardships and triumphs you went through to be successful, and maybe a few more select people that helped you on the way. But all too soon you just blend in with everyone else around you who may have gone through the exact same you went through.
My Question:
Why did Sayuri want to end up with the Chairmanso badly? Nobu provided plenty for her. What did the Chairman have that Nobu did not have?
1)The only options that Sayuri had were to either to become a good geisha or stay for ever as a servant in the tea house. Her dreams were to became a fance lady like the ones that were with the chair man. By becoming a Geisha every step she made she would try to make that step get her closer to the Chairman. The day she met the chair man was the day it change her decision on running away other wise she would have ran away.
Sayuri had limited options for her life she tryed to contol her life when she set herself to get involved with the minister. Sayuri's destiny was not in her hands she could only make the best out of things. A reason being was that when every thing went bad like the time Pumpkin brought in the chairman instead of Nobu. Things still ended up the way she wanted it to.
2)Sayuri went through alot of pain she lost her parents, she lost her sister. At the place were she was staying she would constintly got put down. She was forced to do things she didnt want to do like the time they made her ruin a Kimono and was severly punished for it. Just so that she could go see her sister. She did many things to try to stay alive to survive but in the end her dreams came true.
So what she means when she says"Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper” is that we shouldnt worrie about our problems right now if we look at the big picture those problems could be insignificant in the end.
My Question:
If Sayuri's life had been exaclty as she planned it and had every thing went her way, would she have ended up the way she did with the one thing she really wanted?
Ian Vanmiddlesworth's question.
Do you think that it was right for Pumpkin to do what she did by bringing the Chairman? She did go through lots of struggles and hardships to but, was it in her best interest to do that? Why?
Sayuri went through alot but in Pumpkins eyes it seemed that Sayuri took every thing that pumpkin wanted. So in responce Pumpkin tried to sabotage Sayuris life by bringing the Chairman to find her with the minister. When Sayuri got adopted by mother instead of her, Pumpkin felt jealous towards Sayuri. She lived with the thought that Sayuri betrayed her buy taking everything she wanted by taking her dreams away. So every chance she could get she would try to ruin Sayuri. So i do think that it some how even though it was wrong but could be justified. For Pumpkin had a dream and was the only option she had in life and it was tooken away just like that with out regrets. How would like it if they shattered your dreams.
(1) Sayuri belived that she could control her own destiny, but with the things going on in her life her destiny was basicly chosen for her. She refused to belive it and kept trying to control her own destiny. She was in control of her destiny to some degree by the fact she followed her dreams, wanting to be with the chairman. I think her destiny was in the hands of everyone else, besides her. The chairman put in a word to have mother adopt Sayuri, rather than Pumpkin being adopted by mother.
(2) I think what Sayuri ment in the last sentance of the novel that everyone has to deal with the natural things in life including death, and joys of life. Not everything that happens in one persons life, will affect another, but it may sometime later in life.
My question:
Why did Pumpkin sabotage Sayuri with bringing the chairman to see what she was doing? What was Pumpkin thinking at that time?
Classmate question:
Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example, sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
Answer:
Sayuri wanted to change her life because she felt that she needed to take her life into her own hands. Since that she was kidnapped and sold to be a geisha, she never felt that she completely controlled her own life. I think she wanted to control her own life than having people run it for her constantly, and make her own decisions.
From the day that she was taken away from her family that was the day she lost any chances of running her own life. It might of not been a bad thing nor a good thing. If any thing I think she was better of taken away and was forced to live a life she didn’t plan. If she would of stayed back at her village she would of never been able to become a beautiful Geisha. Life is about taking risks and that risk that was made for her might of been one of her best. When she became older that’s when she started making risks on her own. She made a decision that she was going to become a beautiful geisha and be side by side with the chairman. Once she put her mind to what she wanted she became more independent but with the help of her mother. Training to become a geisha is being obedient and listening to others so basically ever sense she was moved in to her new home her life decisions were to be made by other people mostly her care mother.
At first she was told to live in a new home and also that she was to become a geisha. She ran into some trouble and her new planes were to become a house maid. After that she made a goal for her self to become a geisha. That was one of her first few important decisions she made. She finally became a geisha and from there on she was dedicated to following the chairman. So you see Sayuri’s life was not run by her own doing she was told was to do, she was a well treated slave. If it wasn’t for Monsumono forcing to ruin that kimono she would of never met her other mother.
Maybe what Sayuri is tying to say it don’t matter who runs your life, or how you run your life your going to have failures and your going to have victories but in the its about you. In the end it doesn’t matter what people think because its your life not theirs and the only person it matters to is your self and it’s the same for everyone else. Everyone has their own obstacles in life.
My question for that I want you to answer is, did Sayuri’s beauty have a big a part on how her life was? Did her rare eye color greaten her popularity
(1) I believe that Sayuri’s destiny was controlled by several people, including her. Several events occurred in Sayuri’s life that she could not control, and, for most of her life, Sayuri abided by the rules of others. These people included Mother, Hatsumomo, Mameha, Nobu, and even the Chairman. The Chairman played an important role in Sayuri’s destiny in that he was the first person to take notice of her and help her to become a successful geisha. Because Sayuri was sold to the Nitta Okiya, Mother had complete control over her and what she did with her life. Not until after World War II did Sayuri get to make any decisions for herself. This was because the definition of a geisha had changed after World War II and Sayuri’s life seemed to be more “relaxed”. Although Sayuri’s fate seemed to be that Nobu was to become her danna, she was able to change that by making her own decision to sleep with the Minister. With this choice, Sayuri was able to choose her own path in life-allowing the Chairman to become her danna. In conclusion, I would state that Sayuri was not much responsible for the way her life turned out because her life was place into the hands of others for many years. Sayuri was able to control her life in the end, but for most of her life, it was controlled by the people around her.
(2) When Sayuri states, “Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper”, I believe that she is saying that no matter what we do, or how well we do it, everything our life brings us will eventually wash away. We will go through many struggles, triumphs, heartaches, and accomplishments but one day our life will end and we will be washed away and forgotten. I do not believe that Sayuri is stating that people will not make history or anything of the sort, I believe that she is just talking about life in general.
(3) Carly Deschamps Question: Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn’t?
(4) Answer to Carly’s Question:
Sayuri had such a desire to end up with the Chairman because he was the one who gave her hope. When no one else seemed to care about Sayuri, or her future, the Chairman brightened her day and made her feel special and worthy. Sayuri held onto the compassion the Chairman showed her that day and it gave her the strength to push through each day during her life as a geisha. For this reason she wanted to be with him forever, rather than being with Nobu.
Although Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri, she did not want to be with him because she loved the Chairman. Nobu was a great man, but as I said previously, Sayuri wanted to be with the Chairman because of the hope he brought to her as a child. It’s not that Nobu couldn’t provide for Sayuri, it was just because Sayuri was attracted to the Chairman since she was a little girl. Also, there was a special bond between the Chairman and Sayuri; there was never such a bond between Nobu and Sayuri.
(5) My Question: Towards the end of the book Sayuri finally get her wish of having the Chairman as her danna. When this happens, Sayuri forsakes everything-including her life as a geisha. Do you think that it was hard for her to let go of her old life so she could have the Chairman? Do you think that any part of her ever wanted to go back to her old life as a geisha?
Rosita's Question:
Through out the whole book Hastumomo was always bringing Sayuri down and treating her really bad, she seemed to be more like that towards Sayuri more then any other girl in the house. Why do you think she was like that towards Sayuri? Was it because she felt like Sayuri was a threat to Hastumomo from the start or just because she felt like she was superior to everyone esle?
My answer: Hatsumomo bugged me!! She was out to get Sayuri! she knew that one day Sayuri would become a great geisha and all the people would travel great distances to see her! and Hatsumomo wanted to make her life horrible so that she would stumble! Hatsumomo has very low self esteem and that is very clear in this book. when she meets Sayuri she instantly has a hate towards her. that hate comes from jealousy! and that jealousy wil never go away unless she lowers herself.
1. I believe that Sayuri had no choice about her destiny. It was destiny that Mr. Tanaka sold her and that her attempts to run away failed. But most importantly it was destiny that she and the Chairman met on that bridge and that he set up a big sister for Sayuri. If they never would have met we could only imagine that Sayuri would still be working in the Okiya as Hatsumomo’s slave.
2. When Sayuri stated that “Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper” she meant that after all of her struggles and all of her triumphs they will soon all just wash away and become forgotten, all she will have is the memory of her past.
Question: Do you think that in any way Sayuri would have been happier with Nobu as her danna?
Chris Edwards Question: When Chiyo arrvived at the okiyo why was Hatsumomo afraid of her potential when she was just a girl from a fishing village? Why was Hatsumomo not afriad of Pumpkin?
Response: Hatsumomo was afraid of Chiyo’s potential but she was also afraid of Chiyo becoming greater than herself. Pumkin on the other hand had little potential compared to Chiyo, Pumkin even had to take extra lessons at school to catch up with the other students.
Nathanael DuVall
per 2
“Final”
Personally I think that Sayuri meant that no matter what we do, over time it is washed away and blurred. Like the pain she felt after breaking her arm. Over the next few years and later in the book it had no mention of how it hurt or if it ached. After her mizuage was done with Dr. Crab, she never really talked about it to the exception of when the General became her danna, and when she seduced the Minister. The pains she experienced with Hatsumomo melted away shortly after Hatsumomo was kicked out of the Okiya.
All of these life changing events that were probably fairly painful, melted away as soon as they were done. Her fears of never getting to be with the Chairman evaporated after she seduced the Minister and Nobu exiled her from his presence. When the Chairman became Sayuri’s danna, her entire meaning of life was changed. She went from reaching for the un-reachable, to living her dreams. She even admitted that she never believed her and the Chairman could ever be together. But she seized her destiny and took control of her life.
I would go as far as to say she reshaped her future and forgot her past to move closer to the Chairman. She reshaped her future the day she prayed to become a Geisha and the day she betrayed Nobu and she for got her future the day she decided she would never see her sister again, and realized there was no home to go back to. She used the water in her spirit to flow through all obstacles and engraved her name in the history of Kiyoto. She said in the book that she had become one of the most famous Geisha of all time and was on the list for the top 50 to ever live. It is in this way that all things fade to history and memories, slowly getting forgotten and slowly fading from memory.
In the beginning of the book, Sayuri says "That afternoon, when I met Mr. Tanaka, was the very best afternoon of my life, and also the very worst afternoon".Why do you believe it was her best and worst afternoon? in what ways has Mr. Tanaka affected her life?
It was the best day of her life in a lot of ways, and the worst day of her life in a lot of ways. It was the best because it was the event that led her to Gion and eventually to the Chairman. It was the worst because it tore her from her family and destroyed her relationship with her father. It was the best because by him taking her away, she didn’t have to watch her mother die and her father deteriorate until his own death a few weaks later. It was the best because she got to live the life of an aristocrat and virtually travel the world as the Chairman’s danna. It was the worst because she never got to see her family again and was torn from everything she had ever known. She also never got to act like a child again and was tortured by Hatsumomo and had to deal with mother. It was the best because she became something she never thought she could ever be. . .A Geisha.
My Question:
How do you think Nobu reacted after finding out that all his feelings and efforts for love had been squandered on a traitorous little Geisha? What do you think he felt about himself and how do you what do you think went through his mind? Suicide? “Will I ever find love?” “WHY ME?!”
I think that the way the book was written it made it seem like everything Sayuri did was part of her fate. Even though she made decisions that made things worse for her, I think it was part of her fate to make those decisions. If she had never tried to run away and had just trained to become a geisha, she may never have met the chairman, and never have become Mameha's younger sister. I think that everything Sayuri did was part of her fate, even though when we were reading the book it seemed like she was making decisions on her own and taking fate into her own hands.
The last sentence of the novel Sayuri Says, “Whatever our struggles and triumphs, however we may suffer them, all too soon they bleed into a wash, just like watery ink on paper.” I think that when she says this she means that no matter how big our struggles are at the time, it all works out in the end, and things that were really hard seem easier in retrospect.
My Question:
Do you think that what Pumpkin did was wrong when she took the Chairman instead of Nobu? Was she rightfully angry with Sayuri, even though Sayuri had no say in becoming the daughter of the Okiya?
My Answer to Heather J's Question:
Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example, sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
I think that Sayuri knew what she wanted in life, and didn't want to let other people decide for her. She ran away because she didn't want to live in the okiya, she wanted to be with her sister. Then when it came to her decision to sleep with the minister, she knew it was the only way that she could ever be with the Chairman. She didn't want to settle for being with someone who she didn't love. She wanted to choose her life for herself, and in the end everything ended up working out for her.
1. Sayuri's destiny was set in two different ways. She was good and had done some things on her own. Sadly many things she had done were against what other people had ordered her to do, which in most cases got her in trouble. When Mr. Tanaka picked Sayuri up from her village her life from that point had totally changed. In the beginning she was timid and scared, but soon became more familure with the geisha culture and ways. She began to actually like what she did and did it well. What suprised me very much was when she told Mameha she was ready to quit being a geisha. Though being a geisha was unfortunately not a choice, it was a requirment. This was one of the times when Sayuri had no control of her life and how it was lead.
Although when Sayuri had decided to run away from the okiya, it was all her. Nobody was telling her not to or how to do it. Which was one of Sayuri's bad choices.
Even though Sayuri made some bad choices, she was still an amazing geisha. And Hatsumomo was extremely jealous.
So Sayuri made her own choices, but she also had to listen to what other people told her alot of the time.
2. After reading what Sayuri said and thinking about it I figured out what she probably meant. Life is hard, you have to work hard and not expect everything to come so easy. But the hard work always pays off in the end. The hard times dont last.
Almost everyone in one way or another has the same problems, even if they are just slightly different. We all struggle at some point and time in our lives.
Sayuri's hardest time was losing her mother, and then beign taken away from her dad right after. But she made it through and is stronger than ever now.
My Question:
Why do you think Sayuri went against what people said so often? Normally you would learn after one time of running and getting caught. But Sayuri seamed to continue over and over to go against what people were telling her to do.
My Answer to Heather J's Question:
Question:
Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
Answer:
Sayuri knew exactly what she wanted in her life and how she wanted it to turn out. The only thing was that she did not want other people to tell her how to run it. When Sayuri decided to sleep with the Minister she had it all planned out. It was not like she just went and did it. The reason was to be able to be with the Chairman. She wanted to be with someone who she actually loved, rather than someone everyone else thought would be good for her. Same with when she ran away. She didn't run away just because, she wanted to be with her sister. Basically Sayuri just wanted her life the way she wanted it.
1) Sayuri tried to control her destiny many times by running way from the Nitta Okiya. However, everytime something happened which managed to stop her. I believe that she does not have control of her destiny even though she thought she did. If anyone was involed in choosing Sayuri's destiny I would say it was Mameha because when she decided to be Sayuri's 'big sister' and train her to be a geisha she then presented Sayuri with the chance to make soming of her life. Sayuri had no choice but to accept.
2)I believe that what Sayuri means by this is that the course of life has many ups and downs but in the end none of that matters. We'll all end up in the same place and what has happened in the past is done and over with. I think what she means is that our struggles and triumphs of our pasts will all mix, or "bleed" together to form our present lives. She is no longer concerned with the aspects of her past, what is important to her is her present life.
My Question:
From that day where she first meet the chairman on the bridge Sayuri has had a deep desire to end up with him. Ever since she has focused all her attention and efforst on finding him again. Why do you suppose Sayuri had such a strong attraction to the chairman?
My Response:
Heather J's question
Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example, sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
I think that sayuri is very stubborn. Once she gets it in her mind that she wants something she doesn't give up on it. At first she wanted to escape to be with her sister. She put all her effort into running away to find her. She continued this until her sister left her and then she met the chairman. Once she met him she put all her effort into becoming a geisha and finding him. As soon as she found him again he was still out of reach because she was supposed to be with Nobu. To get rid of Nobu she risked everything by trying to get caught by him with the Minister. It was all an attempt to be with the Chairman. Once she sets her mind to something she doesn't quit until she can have it.
FIXED THE ERRORS
1)I personally believe that Sayuri is responsible for half of the way her life turned out to be. Just like Taylor said, she didn't choose to be a slave nor a Geisha, but she didn't obey what she was told neither.She made her life much harder than it should have been. First off, she tried to have a really close relationship with one of the top guys, which was not okay. She should of obeyed and did what was asked of her. She was constantly risking so much at so many different times. Running away has to be very hard to go through, because getting caught you know there will be some consequences following. But luckily for her she managed to get free and ended up with the chairman.
Sayuri went through a lot of obstacles in her life. She was sold by her own family. Which is very hard to think that your very own parents could do such a thing. Then soon after that her parents died, and she was put in the okiya before she could become a Geisha which they did not treat her well at all. Just like a few people already stated, her life was put in a couple of peoples hands. Those of Mr. Tanaka and Mameha.
2) I think that what Sayuri is trying to say is that eventually everyone is alike. No matter what you do or what paths you may take in life. You can try and make your life different than everyone else, but it always plays the same ending.You are born,go to school,get a job,get old,and eventually die. It's just the game of life. Weather you want to play it or not.
My Question:
After seeing and reading why Sayuri chose some of the paths that she took, like running away, disobeying, ended up being with the chairman, do you agree or disagree with the outcome? Do you think that if she would of never of met the chairmen she would have been with Nobu?
Deschamps15's question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
My Answer:
When she first met the Chairman, she fell in love. He had given her something very special to her. This was the hanky that had money it. That was something that she was not used to. Which Made her feel worth something. It's not that Nobu didn't provide enough or too much for Sayuri, she had already fallen in love with someone else. And when one falls in love you cant just let something go that means so much to you. The chairman just had the certain special love to offer Sayuri and she had already accepted.
My question
Why do you think that Sayuri would leave Nobu for the chairman after he saved her from the war and then helped her become a geisha again?
C. Deshamp's Question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
My response
I think that Sayuri had such a desire to end up with the Chairman because he was there when she was having a difficult time when she was younger. I think that she saw that as him showing that he cared about her as a complete stranger and was the only one that reached out to help her.
I think that the Chairman gave Sayuri motavation into becoming a better geisha because, she knew that if she became a great geisha that was one step closer to the Chairman. My point is that Nobu didn't have an impact on her life but, the Chairman did and she sees that as a big deal. So Sayuri's going to risk everything she has to be with the Chairman. Since, to her he is the one who pushed her in her life to better her future.
At times she was responsible for her life and how it turned out. But at the most important parts she was told what to do. Like when Sayuri and Mommyha were at the sumo match with Nobu and the Chairmen she was told to pay attention to Nobu because Hatsumoto wouldn’t try to steel him away from her. This change set up events in the book like when Nobu wanted to be Sayuri’s Danna. This never would have happened if Mommyha hadn’t of told Sayuri to pretend to be interested in Nobu.
Another way that her life was out her hands was when she told pumpkin to bring Nobu to the room ware she was with the minister. But instead pumpkin brought the Chairmen. That was totally out of Sayuri’s hands. At one point in the book she even says that she was doing what ever Mommyha told her to do, and that she felt like her puppet. At the end of the book you find out that the Chairmen told mommyha to take Sayuri under her wing, and if the chair men hadn’t of done that Sayuri wouldn’t have become a geisha.
What I think she meant by that is what we do in are lives will affect others. For example because Sayuri’s was such a good geisha mother promised the okiya to Sayuri instead of pumpkin. Because that happened Hatsumomo freaked out and started the okiya on fire. Later on Pumpkin brought the Chairmen instead of Nobu to the room.
My answer to Cree Wallace question
Sayuri wanted the chairmen so badly that she was willing to do anything or hurt anyone to get him. I Think even if Nobu offered to give her everything a house, clothes and pay all her bills, she would have turned it down for the chairmen.
My question
If Sayuri had never of pretended to be interested in Nobu at the sumo match, do you think that it would have been easier for Sayuri to be with the Chairmen?
1) I think that Syuri was trying to control her destiny by the fact she was trying to be such a good geisha just to get chairman. She was basing her geisha skills to try to impress chairman so she could be with him. She would get closer and closer but she couldn’t get him right were she wanted so she would empress Nobu that way it would empress him.
When she was sold to a geisha house when she was younger her destiny was controlled by her dad. She had no choice or no control of what was going to happen after that. Her destiny was in the hands of the buyer that bought her into the geisha house. She tried getting together with her sister to escape but her sister ended up bailing out on her so her sister ended up having a part in her destiny as well. She had no family left but the geishas around her.
2) I think that Sayuri is trying to say is that you need to get burnt to get rewarded. You can’t always have what you want. There are always things that happen to you that take you away from what you are trying to get or achieve.
People seem to think that life should be easy. You have to work hard or what you want. Were ever life may take you can’t just give up on what you really want in life. Yeah it may suck at times but don’t give up. You are going to be set up for failure in life it’s just how you handle it is the real test.
My Question:
was it right for the chairman to get together with Sayuri, even though he knew how strongly Nobu felt about her? Would it have been better if the chairman left Sayuri and let Pumpkin get away with taking the wrong person?
Carly15's Question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
From the beginning Sayuri had a secret crush on the Chairman. She couldn’t just come out and say it because she had to keep in secret to save her Geisha popularity. So it’s not what Nobu had or didnt have its that the Chairman stole her heart from the beginning and she didn’t let anybody else have it.
Nobu treated Sayuri with a lot of respect. For the longest time he didn’t believe in Geisha’s he just thought they were like any other whore that walked around the streets trying to sell themselves. She proved that and he now has a respect for them because of Sayuri. So he began to get feelings for Sayuri, but at the same time Sayuri was just trying to empress the chairman to like her.
My Question:
Do think that Mameha was wrong in her motives by forcing Sayuri to act as if she had intentions with Nobu and misleading him, or do you think that it was a smart move on Mameha's side?
Carly Deschamps Question:
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
Response:
I think the reason that Sayuri had such a desire to be with Chairman was because of that on the bridge. When there was no one being nice to her, for instance, Hatsumomo, and she had fallen on the bridge. The Chairman helped her up. He was also showing her an act of kindness that she had gotten from anybody else.
Even though Nobu was a wealthy man and had everything that the Chairman had Sayuri wanted to be with the Chairman. The reason why is because on the day the Chairman had helped her up on the bridge taht was the day that she had fallen in love with him. Nobu, though had never gotten the chance, never showed her that kind of caring.
This is why Sayuri wanted to be with the Chairman more than she did with Nobu.
From the day that she was taken away from her family that was the day she lost any chances of running her own life. It might of not been a bad thing nor a good thing. If any thing I think she was better of taken away and was forced to live a life she didn’t plan. If she would of stayed back at her village she would of never been able to become a beautiful Geisha. Life is about taking risks and that risk that was made for her might of been one of her best. When she became older that’s when she started making risks on her own. When Sayuri was a little girl she had an encounter with the Chairman that he showed unconditional kindness to her and ever sense then She made a decision that she was going to become a beautiful geisha to be side by side with the Chairman. Once she put her mind to what she wanted she became more independent also with the help of her older sister. Training to become a geisha is being obedient and listening to others for instance Sayuri did not have it easy in her training, she had to do the same work as every other Geishas but in a shorter period of time. In her training they taught how to sleep, walk talk and act correctly so basically ever sense she was moved in to her new home her life decisions were to be made by other people mostly her care mother.
At first she was told to live in a new home and also that she was to become a geisha. At first she wanted to escape and go back to her home town but after a while she got used It and accepted who was but then she got into some trouble and her new planes were to become a house maid. After her encounter with the Chairman she was destined to be a geisha For the Chairman. That was one of her first few important decisions she made. She finally became a geisha and from there on she she became one the well liked Geisha in town. Sayuri became very popular very quickly that she was chosen to star in a in a big part of a traditional play. Hatumono played a big part in Sayuri’s life she was the enemy and found every way possible to sabotage Sayuri Career. After the play Hotsumono was so jealous of Sayuri that she plotted to destroy her stuff and ended up burning down the room. So you see Sayuri’s life was not run by her own doing she was told was to do, she was a well treated slave. If it wasn’t for Hotsumono forcing to ruin that kimono she would of never met her other mother.
Maybe what Sayuri is tying to say it don’t matter who runs your life, or how you run your life your going to have failures and your going to have victories but in the its about you. In the end it doesn’t matter what people think because its your life not theirs and the only person it matters to is your self and it’s the same for everyone else. Everyone has their own obstacles in life.
My question: Did Sayuri’s beauty have a big a part on how her life was? Do you think that if she was ugly and is she was just like any other girl they would of given her a chance to become a Geisha or even accomplished all that she had done an also do you think her rare eye color give her more popularity
To Baxter question: that time with the chairman might of been Sayuri first encounter with a grown man and when she saw how nice he was to her she fell in love. hey people fall in love in different ways. And with the chairman he saw that Sayuri kept her geisha traditions he probably felt that she was perfect while everyone had become prostitutes.
1.Sayuri was very much apart of her own destiny because she was able to become a Geisha but some of the things that happened to her were uncontrollable, such as her parents deaths. I also think that Her destiny was somewhat already set in fate and she could do very little to change it. Some of the things that she did changed after her parents death so that changed her thinnking to different things.
2.What She is saying here is that, no matter what our problems are, no matter what we go through, no matter how our lives are changed because of these; all the problems are the same just with a different face on things.
3. what made pumpkin decide to be mean towards Sayuri?
4.My Question:
Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example, sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
Sayuri did this because she wanted to know if she could actually change it depending on her actions and she found the answer when she was sleeping with the minister. as for running away that was probably a stupid idea because that just got her in more trouble.
To Ian Vanmiddlesworth question: Do you think that it was right for Pumpkin to do what she did by bringing the Chairman? She did go through lots of struggles and hardships to but, was it in her best interest to do that? Why?
Sayuri is not to blame for pumpkins problem. It was all in the mother’s decision on what Sayuri and pumpkins will be doing. Pumpkin feels betrayed but if she was a real friend she should support Sayuri instead of putting guilt on her mind. Pumpkin was already doomed from the start anyways just because she was partnered up with Hotsumono. I do believe that Hotsumono corrupted pumpkin because her jealousy with Sayuri. In a way I think Pumpkin was jealous too because Sayuri was being treated better than her and she was finding out that she was becoming more popular than Hotsumono and herself.
At the end what Pumpkin did to Sayuri was way worse than what Sayuri did, and it wasn't even Sayuri's doing. If she was a real friend she would forgave and forgot and not seek revenge.
Pumpkin was just mad that Sayuri was favored over her. At first Pumkin was treated better and she started her Geisha training before Sayuri so it doesn't really matter because Pumkin had her opportunity but she didn't take advantage of it.
My Question:
From the day when she first meet the Chairman on the bridge Sayuri has had a deep desire to end up with him. Ever since she has focused all her attention and efforts on finding him again. Why do you suppose Sayuri had such a strong attraction to the Chairman? Why do you suppose the Chairman formed such an intrest in Sayuri? Do you think it was really her destiny to be with the Chairman or just that she was so attracted to him that she made it her "destiny" to be with him?
My Response:
Heather J's question
Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example, sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
I think that sayuri is very stubborn. Once she gets it in her mind that she wants something she doesn't give up on it. At first she wanted to escape to be with her sister. She put all her effort into running away to find her. She had numerous failed escape attempts until finally her sister had to leave without her. A little while after that she met the Chairman. Once she met him she put all her effort into becoming a geisha to find and attract him. As soon as she found him again he was still out of reach because she was supposed to be with Nobu, the Chairman's business partner. To get rid of Nobu she risked everything, like her career, by trying to get caught by him with the Minister. It was all an attempt to be with the Chairman. She'd hoped Nobu would find her and not want to be with her anymore, and then she'd be free to be with the Chairman. A ruined career and bad reputation all seemed worth it to her just as long has she could have the Chairman. Once she sets her mind to something she doesn't quit until she can have it. From the day she meet the Chairman she knew she wanted him and she didn't quit until she got him.
1. The way that Sayuri is accountable for the way that her life had turned out is, if she had not have the determination and the will to continue going to school, and continue practicing, then she wouldn’t have finished where she did. Earlier in the book she had gotten the opportunity to run away from the Okiya. She made the ultimate choice not to run off. Sayuri had an arrangement to begin with and she worked her way to receiving it. (A) To turn out to be a Geisha/(B) To be in the company of the chairman.
The scheme that her fate was positioned in the hands of additional people is for instance: Mameha. If Mameha had not completed that contract with the Ms. Nitta the Sayuri's Okiya, then she wouldn’t have included Mameha as an older sister. If Mameha didn’t give Sayuri directions, by telling her when to do this or how to do that. Then Sayuri's prospect would’ve vanished right down the drain.
2. I think what she meant were that each person faces a fight and problems. No one-person struggle affects any other individual. There are so many citizens in the world. People depart this life and people are brought into this life. When that occurs, life just continues to happen, similar to events. They appear and vanish and sooner or later, are to some extent forgotten.
Why did Sayuri have such a desire to end up with the Chairman? Nobu provided plenty for Sayuri. What did the Chairman have that Nobu didn't?
My Response:
In a time that was so complicated for Chiyo (her young childhood), the Chairman was the one of the only citizens who had reached out with the hand of thoughtfulness and made an optimistic contact on little Chiyo. After being traded to an okiya in Gion by somebody who she thought would be take on her, the loss of her parents, and her unlucky endless disapproval as a slave, Chiyo had very little motivational to move forward to become a geisha. Her idea of a geisha was the foul and deceiving Hatsumomo; the Chairman and his geisha company changed this thought.
With a changed angle on the position of a geisha, and a newly-found worship for a gentleman who established such worthy humanity, Chiyo was single-minded to once again come across that man, and knew it would be by becoming an attractive geisha.
In the conclusion, Chiyo does like Nobu as a companion, but she has done almost nothing for herself, and should not be required to be in a danna bond with a man who she’s does not truly love. Particularly when the one and only that she has ever since she was a little girl plainly stands exactly right next to her.
My Question:
Did Sayuri betrayed Pumpkin for being the one to be adopted by Ms. Nitta or was it the way Hatsumomo taught pumpkin how to act towards Sayuri? Why?
1.Sayuri was somewhat responsible for how her life turned out. If it had not been for the Chairman, she wouldn't have even become a Geisha. The Chairman admits that he had instructed Mameha to take Sayuri as her younger sister. That he had loved her from the beginning but, do to his infinite debt to Nobu, had chosen to step aside and let Nobu have her. If any one, the Chairman was responsible for how Sayuri's life turned out. She did not choose to go live in the okiya, and in fact tried to run away.
In a way, she did not choose to become Geisha but was influenced by the Chairman's kindness. On the other hand, she did help destroy Hatsumomo, and during this process deceived Hatsumomo and Nobu into thinking that Sayuri liked Nobu. She in fact had no mutual feelings (outside of friendship) towards Nobu at all, but he was as stubborn as a mule. After trying most of her life to control her destiny, she took a wild shot at throwing things off balance.
She had told the Minister to take a walk with her to the theater where she planned to seduce him and have Nobu walk in on them. But in fact it was the Chairman who walked in on them. Even something as small as this she had no control over. She should have believed that the Chairman had been brought into her life for a reason, not just as a piece of eye candy to forever chase, but as her destiny. So in some ways she did influence her destiny but I do not believe she ever controlled it.
2. I think Sayuri means to tell us that over time all pain and even all feelings are blended together and become illegible. For instance all the struggles it takes to write a story on a piece of paper, or to get to one unreachable goal, is quickly forgotten and eligible when water wets the paper or you finally reach that goal. Sayuri conquered all odds in the end. Having all her dreams come true with the realization that the Chairman had always intended to have Sayuri for himself. That he wanted her as his Danna more than he wanted anything else in the world. To go so far as to cross his friend Nobu to get her. (And by cross I mean he told Nobu about Sayuri’s encounter with the Minister to anger him into never seeing her again.) All the pain with Hatsumomo and the pains of losing her parents were numbed and forgotten with one moment of confession, the confession of the Chairman’s feelings. One could go so far as to say that Sayuri’s problems almost completely evaporated when the chairman accepted her as his Danna. She had financial security, a nice house, no life threatening problems and most importantly the love of the man of her dreams (literally).
-Heather J!
Why do you think Sayuri wanted to change her destiny so much, so much she was willing to risk her career? For example, sleeping with the Minister and trying to run away.
Many people throughout time have tried to change their destinies. The entire reason to her for becoming a Geisha was to get closer to the Chairman. And she was willing to do anything to get there. She destroyed Hatsumomo so that she could become closer to the Chairman, she deceived Nobu to destroy Hatsumomo, and destroyed Nobu to get even closer to the Chairman. She was willing to do anything necessary to get to the Chairman.
Jarom King
My Question:
Can we blame Sayuri for the choices she made throughout her life or were her motives and choices influenced too much by other people?
1.
I think that Sayuri really does have responsibility about her life with almost total control. The only thing that she didn’t have control was because she didn’t know that the Chairman was doing so much for her.
But if we look all her effort, all the friends she made and all effort that she applied to become a geisha was really her decision in becoming one and getting where she got. If she didn’t put effort in making what she wants become true than probably they never will happened. So her like was the combination between her helping herself and the other people. Without her effort all the chances wouldn’t become her dreams.
2.
For me what Sayuri means was that no matter how you did in life, successful or poor, all of those things it’s a matter of time will mead to very similar. Have things in life that you can’t avoid and I think that is what she was trying to say.
My Question:
Do you think if she before to Chairman about her feelings, do you think that the end of the novel could be different? Why?
My Response (Ian G.):
Is what Sayuri did to Nobu morally wrong? With all of his help and friendship throughout the entirely of her career, was she inappropriate in deliberately planning to sabotage their relationship in the end?
I think that for all what Nobu did to her, she act like she hadn’t any gratitude for him and for all what he did for her.
Wasn’t appropriate what she did but she putted her feelings for the Chairman in first place, because how sad should be you stay with a person that you don’t like while you like somebody else.
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