Thursday, January 24, 2008
Rising from the Ashes
Pumpkin believes that Sayuri betrayed her when she, rather than Pumpkin, was adopted by the Nitta okiya. Do you believe that Sayuri was entirely blameless in this incident? Might she have helped to make Pumpkin's life easier while they were in the okiya together? Or has Pumpkin's character simply been corrupted by her years with Hatsumomo and the entire cruel system that has exploited her?
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I think that Sayuri sort of is to blame, but it's not really her fault that she's more successful. Does Pumpkin expect Sayuri to dumb herself down in a sence so that she can rise above her. Sayuri's just trying to become a good geisha a pay off her debt. As far as i'm aware after Sayuri was adopted by Ms. Nitta she never did anything to go out of her way to make life for Pumpkin harder. I think that Pumpkins character has been corrupted by Hatsumomo, towars the end it reveals Pumpkin ubtained many of the same charateristics Hatsumomo had.
I think that Pumpkin is just being childish. Sayuri is totally blamless in this situation and she can't help it if Mother wants to adopt her. Sayuri can even help Pumpkin while in the okiya, she could befriend her once again and make sure that Hatsumomo isn't being cruel to Pumpkin. I think Pumpkin has too soft of a heart to let Hatsumomo corrupted her into her cruel ways. I think that Sayuri in the furture will help Pumpkin in the okiya and help her with dealing with Hatsumom.
I don't think Pumpkin should blame Sayuri because Ms. Nitta said she had her eye on adopting Sayuri for a long time. I dont think Ms. Nitta told Pumpkin she was going to adopt her. I think Hatsumomo told pumpkin that Ms. Nitta was going to adopt Pumpkin just to bother Mameha. I don't think Sayuri could have made her life easier because she wasn't aloud to speak with to her so she stayed out her and Hatsumomo's way. I don't think Pumpkin has become like Hatsumomo because she said she hated her when she talked to Sayuri.
I don't believe that Sayuri was entirely blameless. Even though she didn't konw that pumpkin would not be adopted into the okiya she knew that if she continued her career as a geisha and was successful that she would be adopted into the okiya. I don't think that Sayuri could have made Pumpkin's life any easier because she had absolutly no control in the okiya even when she was adopted into it. If Pumpkin had been with a different older sister I think that life would have been a lot better for Pumpkin. Having been under Hutsumomo's control for so long I believe made it so that she didn't trust anyone any more.
I do not think Sayuri is to blame for being adopted. She had no idea that she would be adopted and she thought Mother had already adopted Pumpkin. The only reason Mother adopted Sayuri is because she has become a successful Geisha, she recognized the skills that Sayuri has acquired and does not want to pass them by. I do agree Sayuri could have made Pumpkins life easier by allowing her to confide in her. This was not allowed by Mameha though so it was not really her choice. Hatsumomo has trained Pumpkin and has in a sense corrupted her. She has been taught hateful ways and is slowly starting to acquire them. But I do not think Sayuri has done anything wrong in this matter.
I don't think Sasyuri should be blamed... she's just trying to be the best Geisha she can be. And I don't think theres any way she could make Pumkins life any easier. She has to make her own desicions. Sayuri can't just throw away opportunity to be like Pumkin.
I think that Sayuri was blameless in this event. She became the daughter of the okiya because she was a better geisha. I don't think that Sayuri could have made Pumpkins life easier in the okiya either, because Pumpkin is the one who wouldn't talk to her. I don't think that Pumpkin was corrupted by Hatsumomo, I think that she was just really unlucky in becoming her younger sister.
I don't think it's Chiyo's fault that she got adopted. Ms. Nitta wanted to adopt her, and Pumpkin shouldn't have reacted so selfish about it.
I do not believe that Sayuri betrayed Pumpkin. One of them was going to be adopted and if Pumpkin had been adopted instead of Sayuri Hatsumomo's influence on her would have made Sayuri's life VERY hard. Sayuri and Pumpkin were both going for the same goal, to be adopted. It is not Sayuri's fault that her older sister Mameha had done better planning for her future than Hatsumomo had done for Pumpkin's. Pumpkin is around Hatsumomo every day. Even though she expressed to Sayuri that she does not like Hatsumomo and cannot understand how anyone can be so mean, she still shares a bond with Hatsumomo and has some amount of loyalty to her. Sayuri succeeded in what she set out to do and should be proud of herself and of her accomplishments.
Nothing is Sayuri's fault in this situation. Being a better geisha is all that she did, so that's not her fault. Pumpkin is being very selfish herself, she was given many oppurtunities to become a good geisha, but since she became Hatsumomo's little sister, it didn't help her any. Sayuri had planned on becoming adopted by Ms. Nitta for a long time, and now that she succeeded, Pumpkin was feeling more jealous than anything.
I think that Sasyuri should not be blamed because she is just trying to be the best Geisha. And just because she is trying to be the best Geisha she can be doesnt mean anything. I dont think there is any way that she could of made pumpkins life easier. I agree with Jake that Sayuri can't throw away opportunities to be like Pumkin.
I do not believe that Sayuri can be blammed or that she betrayed Pumpkin. Sayuri was just trying to make the most out of her life that she could and to become a great Geisha. In a sense, becoming geisha was all Sayuri had left in life. She had lost her whole family and neeeded something to help her survive. I do not think that Sayuri did this in order to compete with Pumpkin or hurt her. I believe that Pumkin became so brain-washed and bitter from all the time she spent around Hatsumomo and she then had to put the blame on someone. That was Sayuri.
I think that Sayuri was blameless in this event. She had become the daughter of the okiya because she was a better geisha and that she had alot of oppertunities to become a better geisha but she became Hatsumomo's sister and then it ended there. Also I don't think that Sayuri could have made Pumpkins life any easier in the okiya either because Pumpkin is the one that wouldn't talk to her. I don't think that Pumpkin was corrupted by Hatsumomo. I think that Pumpkin is just really jelous of her.
I don't think that Sayuri is to blame at all because Pumpkin was given the same oppourtunities as Sayuri but just Sayuri made more money. Mother was going to naturally adopt the geisha who had the least risk and was making the most money so again it wasn't Sayuri's fault that she unintentionally was adopted rather than Pumpkin.
I think it is mostly Hatsumomo who is to blame. Hatsumomo's techniques of bringing up a younger sister we poor compared to Mameha's. Therefore I believe Sayuri is completely blame free in this situation, she had absolutely no control over anything. Of course Pumpkin is going to be crushed by the change of heart by "Mother", but life as a Geisha is hard and she needs to move on and make the best she can out of the situation given to her.
I believe that Sayuri shouldn't be blamed for what happened, because she didn't do anything wrong by being adopted. In the world that she lives in, it's either kill or be killed. It was either her or Pumpkin and, in her situation, I think most people would have done the same thing. I don't think that there was anything she could do to make Pumpkin's life easy, because she was not in control of what went on between Pumpkin and her older sister, or of what went on in the okiya. I don't think that Pumpkin has been corrupted. I think she was trying to do exactly what Sayuri was trying to do: make a life for herself.
Sayuri is not to blame for her getting adopted instead of pumpkin. Sayuri didn't even know she was going to get adopted because mother had already said she was going to adopt pumpkin before changing her mind. If Sayuri had known about and helped out pumpkins adoption she would have jeopardized her own future.
Sayuri isn't to be blamed at all. If anyone should be blamed, it's Mameha and Hatsumomo. Mameha made Sayuri so successful which is why Mother adopted her. Hatsumomo should have focused more on promoting Pumpkin rather than trying to make Sayuri look bad. Sayuri couldn't have made Pumpkin's life better because Hatsumomo prohibited Pumpkin from talking to her. Also, Sayuri was under the impression that Mother had no interest in adopting her. It seems to me that Pumpkin is just looking for someone to blame because she feels bad about herself.
I definitely don't think its Sayuri's fault that she got adopted into the Nitta Okiya instead of Pumpkin. And Pumpkin shouldn't feel that Sayuri had betrayed her. But I also think that Sayuri isn't completely blameless. Sayuri didn't help pumpkin much while they were in the Okiya together. Because in a way she took away Pumpkin's glory and her chance to be a great Geisha. Because Pumpkin wasn't very pretty and was overweight. On the other hand Sayuri was beautiful so if Hatsumomo didn't think much of her that wasn't a problem because many other Okiya's would be honered to have someone like sayuri to be in their Okiya.
I think that it is not Sayuri's fault because she was being the best Geisha she could be. Plus Ms. Nitta said she had her eye on adopting Sayuri for a while anyway. I also think that Sayuri did not make life harder for Pumkin. What happened was she was following the wrong person. Hatsumomo isn't the great person to follow. So it rubbed off on Pumkin and it started to show.
I think that Sayuri is blameless becuase she has been willing to be friends with pumpkin ever since she has been in the okiya and pumpkin chose to listen to Hatsumomo and avoid her. if Pumpkin feels that she is being betrayed she needs to open up her eyes because Sayuri had no choice in mother wanting to adopt her as the daughter of the okiya.
I don't think it's Chiyo's fault that she got adopted. Ms. Nitta wanted to adopt her, and Pumpkin shouldn't have reacted so selfish about it and I think that Sasyuri should not be blamed because she is just trying to be the best Geisha. And just because she is trying to be the best Geisha she can be doesnt mean anything. I dont think there is any way that she could of made pumpkins life easier.
Sayuri didnt betray pumpkin, she had an opportunity to get adopted by the Nitta okiya and she took it. The way Hatsumomo's personality is i think that pumpkin being around her so much that she is aquiring hatsumomo's ways and that is why i think pumpkin is so jelous of Sayuri.
I don't think that Sayuri can be blamed for being adopted by her okiya. She was trying her hardest and Pumpkin was trying her hardest and mother realized that Saruyi was going to be more successful and adopted her. I think she had no reason to try and make Pumpkins life easier. Pumpkin was "corrupted" by Hatsumomo and had to be considered an enemy to maker herself successful. To trust Pumpkin would be like trusting Hatsumomo.
I don't think Sayuri is to blame. Sayuir can't help it if she is more successful than Pumpkin. I would say that Hatsumomo can some what be blamed for Pumpkin not being adopted by Mother. Maybe Hatsumomo didn't do a good enough job as an older sister in training Pumpkin to be a Geisha. Mahmeah obviously did a better job in training Sayuri, and plus, Mother had mentioned that she had her eye on Sayuri to be adopted a long time ago. I dont think Pumpkin got corrupted by Hatsumomo. Pumpkin doesn't even like Hatsumomo, but she has to listen to her. Sayuri isn't to blame for being adopted, that is just the way things happened.
I think that Sayuri is almost completly blameless to her sucess because its more of what Mahema has made her go through to account to her sucess. I believe now that Sayuri has more power in the nitta house that she might try and help Pumkin whenever she can. I don't believe that Pumkin has been corrupted she has just been helpless for too long because of Hatsumomo.
I do agree Sayuri could have made Pumpkins life easier by allowing her to confide in her.Even though she expressed to Sayuri that she does not like Hatsumomo and cannot understand how anyone can be so mean, she still shares a bond with Hatsumomo and has some amount of loyalty to her.Ms. Nitta she never did anything to go out of her way to make life for Pumpkin harder.
I dont really think Sayuri is the blame. It not Sayuri's fault that she is doing better the Pumpkin. It took Pumpkin longer to get to the school than it did Sayuri. Sayuri seems to be a lot more successful than Pumpkin. Pumpkin is trying to put the blame on Sayuri...but it is actuall her fault.
I think that Sayuri in not to blame but mother is because she wanted Sayuri to have close to the best stuff because she brings in twice as much as pumpkin and Hatsumomo put together and ma by pumpkin dosen't want to be stuck in like a 5 by 5 room with Hatsumomo. I know I wouldn't.
I think Sasyuri shouldn't be blamed because she's just trying to be a true Geisha. Just because she is trying to be a Geisha she can be doesnt mean anything. I dont think there is any way that she could of made pumpkins life easier. I agree with Jake that Sayuri can't throw away opportunities to be like Pumkin.
I believe that Sayuri could have took a bigger part in helping out Pumpkin. Pumpkin went out of her way to save Sayuri's butt when Hatsumomo lied to the doctor and so technically she is in debt to Pumpkin. I don't think they should necessarily be looking at it as a matter of who owes who, however. I believe, as a friend, she should have wanted to help Pumpkin. Sure, there are many excuses Sayuri could use: she is just trying to be a good geisha, that's just part of the business, or she couldn't help it.. But when it comes down to it, she was looking out for herself and not her friend. Pumpkin has the right to feel betrayed, because she was stabbed in the back by yet another person in her life.
Sayuri of course wants to be adopted by the okiya, but it was Mother’s choice. She only decided to adopt Sayuri instead of Pumpkin when Sayuri’s mizuage bidding price went as high as it did. Sayuri did not control this. When Hatsumomo comes to ask Mother if the news is true, Sayuri even asks “wouldn’t it be possible to adopt both Pumpkin and me? (p. 322)”. This quote show that she still cares about Pumpkin. Sayuri could not help Pumpkin while they were in the okiya because Pumpkin wouldn’t even talk to her since Hatsumomo forbade her from doing so. Pumpkin never had as much potential to be a Geisha as Sayuri. For example she was not very good in school and not quite as pretty. Also, Hatsumomo made her so unhappy, that she was not fully focused on becoming a Geisha, unlike Sayuri, who had a nice older sister.
I think that sayuri didnt do any thing wrong. Pumkin was just bring jealous of her.
I dont think that Sayuri betrayed pumpkin. She was just doing the things that would help her chances for survival. When Sayuri became the daughter of the okiya she felt bad for pumpkin and asked Mother if she could adopt both of them. Pumpkin of course was upset she wasnt adopted but there was no way both of them could be just as successful as the other one. Sayuri just happend to become a better giesha. I dont think Pumpkin went to Hatsumomo's ways. Pumpkin just felt like she had been hurt by her only friend.
I dont think Sayuri did anything wrong. She didn't have controll over the situation, all she did was try to be the better Geisha. I can't think of anything she could have done to make Pumpkins life easier, so the way Pumpkin acted was selfish. I don't think Ms. Nitta ever even said she would adopt Pumpkin, I think Hatsumomo just said that in hopes of worrying Mameha.
I dont think that its Sayuri's fault that she got adopted by Ms Nitta. I think that Pumpkin is jealous of Sayuri for being adopated and being a better geisha. Sayuri isn't going to put herself down for Pumpkin sake because she didnt get adopted and isn't that great of a geisha.
Sayuri definitely played a part in her adoption to the Nitta okiya. It was all part of her and Mameha's plan to earn a considerable sum for her mizuage and then get adopted by the okiya. Pumpkin has every right to be angry with Sayuri for taking the position from her, and i do believe Sayuri could have done something for Pumpkin to make her life less miserable in the okiya. For example, she could have asked Mother to also adopt Pumpkin and have some sort of a group ownership of the okiya. It could have been something like Auntie and Mother jr. Mother is the boss, but Auntie still has a certain authority over the okiya. The question is, would Pumpkin have done the same thing for Sayuri? Would she abuse that power?
I believe she was too far corrupted by Hatsumomo's abuse that it would have been to risky to put her in any position of power. Hatsumomo would have undoubtedly told her to do things that would ultimately drive Sayuri out of the district of Gion.
I believe that to point the blame towards Sayuri for Pumpkin’s misfortune towards mother’s adoption choice is incorrect and down right wrong. As we read through this book, I have noticed that Sayuri was just trying to live her life to the fullest extent. She only followed Mameha’s desires and never once intended to bring a dispute against Pumpking. Pumpkin was going against Sayuri under Hatsumomo’s desire towards mother’s adoption in much the same way. I feel that neither of these geisha wanted to bring a dispute between them, and to say that Sayuri is to blame is wrong. It was the way of life during this time. I also believe that Sayuri could not have helped Pumpkin in a higher way in the Okiya to influence her future life. The reason I say this is because Hatsumomo had such a tight leash around Pumpkin that Sayuri barely had a chance to talk or be with her. Hatsumomo was a barrier between the two that could not be broken. Pumpkin lived a life under the domination of Hatsumomo, and later became a prostitute. In conqlusion, I believe that Pumpkin had a very hard life, and this is what exploited her.
Mr. Tanaka is clearly interested in the money. Even though one could argue that he was, in fact, helping them by sending them to the okiya in order to better their quality of life; but that is just senseless. For example, a poor girl can still be happy if she is with her family and feels loved. Furthermore, to top it off Sayuri has hate for Mr. Tanaka as we see when she mistakes the chairman for him at the sumo match and confides in us that she cannot kneel by such a man.
I don't believe that Sayuri had much of a decision herself in becoming adopted by the Nitta okiya. She has worked hard to become the best geisha she could be, and that was obviously better than Pumpkin. Throughout the years Pumpkin and Sayuri have lived together in the okiya, Sayuri has always been nice and thoughtful towards Pumkin, always keeping her feelings in mind. I believe that if Hatsumomo spent more time teaching Pumpkin how to be a good geisha, instead of worrying about ruining Sayuri's chances of becoming successful, then Pumpkin could have been the one to be adopted.
Sayuri is entirely blameless because she didn't do anything to jepordize Pumpkin's future in anyway. There was no way for Sayuri to make Pumkpin's life easier Hatsumomo had forbidden Pumkpin to talk to Sayuri. Hatsumomo got into Pumpkin's head and lead her to believe that Sayuri is the cause of her misery.
I don't think that Sayuri was entirely blameless. Even though she didn't konw that pumpkin would not be adopted into the okiya she knew that if she continued her career as a geisha and was successful that she would be adopted into the okiya. I don't think that Sayuri could have made Pumpkin's life any easier because she didn't have any control in the okiya even when she was adopted into it. If Pumpkin had been with a different older sister I think that life would have been a lot better for Pumpkin. Having been under Hutsumomo's control for so long I believe made it so that it was very hard for her to trust people any more.
It is silly to suggest that Sayuri "betrayed" her "rival" Pumpkin. There were two young girls in the Nitta okiya who had potentially prosperous futures as Geisha. One of them was treated poorly, the other not-so. One of them was the "favorite," and the other was intentionally picked on. These two girls were Chiyo and Pumpkin. Chiyo was disadvantaged in every single way from the beginning (excluding her alluring eyes of course), and her being the one to ultimately be adopted shows nothing but determination on her behalf. There was always that chance, albeit small in the beginning, that Chiyo would be the one to succeed and be adopted. Pumpkin is under the illusion that she was betrayed because she's now a jealous type, and has taken on many of the qualities that her rude, older sister Hatsumomo exhibits. Hands down, Sayuri has earned what she has been given. This is purely my opinion.
It isn't Sayuri's fault. She had no control over who adopted her, for that matter, she had no control over her life. If at all, the only she could have done would have been to grow some balls (metaphorically, of course) and talk to Pumpkin, instead of avoid her.
I don't believe that Sayuri can be blamed for her adoption. Pumpkin has a right to be upset given the entire course of her life was changed, however she is only being a Negative Nancy. Or even more accurately, a Pouty Pumpkin. Pumpkin is scarred from her experience with Hatsumomo as an older sister, and she blames Sayuri for that. It's not Sayuri's fault that she is an overall better geisha, which is why she was adopted in the first place (that, and any other reason which could bring Mother a fine stash of loot). There was little that Sayuri could do to help Pumpkin for a long time considering how fierce Hatsumomo was. Regardless, Sayuri prevailed.
I think that Pumpkin is being shellfish. Sayuri is doing the correct thing because she has so many debts. Pumpkin is just thinking of herself because she wants to rise. After Mrs. Nitta adopted Sayuri, she didnt do anything to get in Pumpkins way in being successful.
I don't think Sayuri should be blamed for this. It isn't her fault that Mother wants to adopt her. Pumpkin, in my opinion is jealous and is acting very childish in this situation.
I am sure that Pumpkin feels betrayed by Sayuri in her ascension, however that does not place the blame solely on Sayuri. Business is tough and in the end an okiya is a big business in Gion. However just because she had ascended in the Nitta Okiya, Sayuri still needs to help to protect Pumpkin in any way she can from Hatsumomo. Unfortunately for Pumpkin, her older sister Hatsumomo will forever leave a mark on her life as a Geisha. She has fallen victim to her older sister’s devious ways and was forever hurt by her falling out with the Nitta Okiya. Sayuri has done nothing wrong, although Pumpkin is still being hurt in many ways; it is a very sad situation.
I believe that Sayuri was not to be blamed because Ms. Nitta wanted to adopt her anyways. So when Pumpkin found out that Sayuri was getting adopted by Ms. Nitta Pumpkin became very jealous. Sayuri wasn't trying to make Pumpkin's life any hard or easier, she was just trying to pay off her geisha dept. I believe that Hatsumomo did corrupt her.
How could Sayuri be to blame?
She hasn't done anything wrong.Pumpkin is maybe jealous of her.It wasn't her decision to enter the Okiya.She was sold to the Okiya and taken away frm her sister.Pumpkin should support her and not be angry with her decisions.
Ms. Nitta wanted to adopted Sayuri anyways; Sayuri didn’t have much to do with that. When Sayuri was adopted Pumpkin became jealous of her but it was fuelled by Hatsumomo. Pumpkin was corrupted by Hatsumomo; I don’t think that pumpkin would have done what she did to Sayuri if Hatsumomo hadn’t taught Pumpkin to be so mean.
I think that Sayuri is completely blameless. It is not her fault that she is a better geisha than Pumpkin. Plus I think that Hatsumomo's attitude is starting to rube off on pumpkin.
Most of you, if not all, seem to find Sayuri almost totally blameless for Pumpkin's misfortune--or at least attribute her failure to be adopted to Sayuri's success. I disagree.
Imagine for a moment how differently Sayuri's life might have been if she never attempted to run away. It's safe to say that the changing point in her life may never have occurred--meeting the Chairman. Consequently, this chance meeting prompted the Chairman to intervene in her future by approaching Mameha about this beautiful girl he met on the streets. Without such an event occuring, one might conclude that Mameha would never have approached Mrs. Nitta with the proposition to become her older sister. Therefore, the contest between Sayuri and Pumpkin may never have occurred.
All of this, of course, is based on the premise that if Chiyo had acted differently as a young girl, her path to becoming a Geisha might have turned out quite differently, and instead of rivalry we might find friendship.
Hatsumomo's influence on Pumpkin cannot be ignored either in this equation. It's hard to imagine Hatsumomo's jealously and spite washing off of Pumpkin without leaving a trace. Remember, Pumpkin's dream is to secure a place for herself as a Geisha. When Chiyo asks Pumpkin to run away with her early in the novel, she refuses saying "I'll work as hard as I have to so they don't send me away" (53). When Pumpkin learns Sayuri is to be adopted instead of her, Pumpkin's feelings of betrayal are amplified by the possiblity of being sent away and the sense of entitlement Hatsumomo has conditioned in her.
Pumpkin must feel all her hard work a waste, especially since Chiyo threw away her opportunity to become a geisha as a girl. It's easy to see why Pumpkin feels bitter and is full of jealousy, and why she blames Sayuri.
However, I can see as some of you have pointed out, that her bitterness is misplaced. If Hatsumomo had not been so bent on ruining Sayuri instead ensuring Pumkin's success, then it's quite possible that both Sayuri and Pumpkin could have been successful Geisha.
I RE-CORRECTED MY BLOGG>>>
I think that Sayuri was blameless in this event. She had become the daughter of the Okiya because she was a better geisha and that she had a lot of opportunities to become a better geisha but she became Hatsumomo's sister and then it ended there. Also I don't think that Sayuri could have made Pumpkins life any easier in the Okiya either because Pumpkin is the one that wouldn't talk to her. I don't think that Pumpkin was corrupted by Hatsumomo. I think that Pumpkin is just really jealous of her. I also think that Pumpkin just got really unlucky by becoming Hatsumomo’s sister.
I do believe Sayuri is blameless in this incident. She did what she was told to do by Mameha just like Pumpkin was told by Hatsumomo. The only reason why Pumpkin wasn't as successful as Sayuri is because Hatsumomo didn't as much about Pumpkin's future as a geisha as she did about getting back at Sayuri and Mameha. I think Sayuri could have helped make Pumpkin's life easier at the okiya by maybe giving advice but I don't believe it would have changed how Hatsumomo corrupted her over the years that she was at the okiya with them.
Sayuri should not be blamed at all! Pumpkin should not blame Sayuri for wanting to better her life and be succesful. All she wanted was to become a good geisha. Her goal was not to make Pumpkins life less great, or more misserable. I do not think Sayuri should be blamed at all.
I don’t think Sayuri was entirely blameless, but still she didn’t betray Pumkin. Sayuri didn’t want to harm Pumkin. Sayuri just achieved her goal of becoming a successful geisha and that is why Mother adopted her. Sayuri couldn’t help Pumkin in the okiya because she couldn’t make any decisions and Hatsumomo had forbidden Pumkin to talk to her. I don’t think Pumkin was corrupted by Hatsumomo, I think that she just felt terrible because she wasn’t adopted and she had failed.
I think that Sayuri wasn't responsible about becoming better than pumpkin because they were both trying to become good Geisha but hatsomomo maid pumpkin do things that she wasn't sop post to do therefore she wasn't able to get the reputation that is needed to become a success full geisha.
I don’t think we can blame Sayuri for being more successful. Like what did Pumpkin expect for Sayuri put her self down in a scene so that Pumpkin can look better than Sayuri. Plus it also might have to do a little bit with the way Hatsumomo treated her with time some one that is treated that badly tends to start to make up things in there mind.
I believe that Sayuri was completely blameless in the incident when she, rather than Pumpkin, was adopted by the Nitta okiya. Sayuri had no choice but to follow what Mameha ordered her to do; she could not help that Mother noticed her and wanted to adopt her. I do not see how there was any way for Sayuri to help make Pumpkin's life easier while they were both living in the okiya, only because Sayuri had no choice in the decisions made for her. The only reason that Pumpkin and Sayuri did not talk was because of the circumstance they were in. For one, Pumpkin was forbidden to talk to Sayuri by Hatsumomo. I believe this is because Hatsumomo was jealous of Sayuri. Because of her jealousy towards Sayuri, Hatsumomo created a sort of contest between the two girls. Neither girl had much choice in their actions as a geisha though. I do believe though that once Sayuri was announced the daughter of the okiya, Pumpkin must have felt some jealousy, but even moreso, saddened and hurt. I do not believe that she had a bitterness towards Sayuri.
Personally, the way that i look at it,is that Sayuri is a little bit to blame. However, it is not completely her fault. She had a better older sister than Pumpkin did. She practices better than Pumpkin did. So Sayuri by right should get all the rewards for her effort. I also think that because Pumpkin had Hatsumomo as an older sister, that is why she took it the way she did. She was starting to become just as corrupt as Hatsumomo.
I believe that sayuri is somewhat to blame. It was her and Mameha's plan along. She didn't once think about what might happen to Pumpkin if She (sayuri) gets adopted.
I believe that she could have helped Pumpkin's life become a little easier if she had of tried. She could of been a friend to her and helped her when she needed it. But she didnt. And I dont really believe that Pumpkin was corrupted by Hatsumomo.
I do beleive that Sayuri is entirely blameless for her getting adopted instead of Pumpkin. As for making Pumpkins life easier in the okiya, they were rivals and had no reason to make her life easier, especially with Hatsumomo behind her pulling the strings.
I dont think that sayuri should have been blamed at all. Sayuri was just what she had to do to become a geisha. It was the only thing she had left to do. She was taken from her family and from her sister. She also had to pay her debt of the kimonano that she destroyed.She might have helped pumpkin if they did live in the same okiya but then agian she could have just thought about herself. I think hatsumomo did currupt pumpkin because of how cruel and harsh she was.
I think that Sayuri was not entirely to blame with being adopted instead of Pumpkin. She couldn't really do anything to help the situation, she asked mother if she would adopt both. I think that mother, as she had throughout the entire book, been looking out for her own well being and the income of money. I think she could have made Pumpkins life easier if her and Hastumomo had not been enemies. I really think Pumpkin was just a "middle man" between Hastumomo and Sayuri. Hastumomo just took Pumpkin in so Sayuri would not become a well known successful geisha.
1. i believe that sayuri has a responsbility in her life and in a way she is in control.. the only thing she is not in control of and i believe that she does not even realize it but the chairman is her main drive in life.. everything she does in life is for him in hopes that one day she can be with the chairman and tell him her feelings.
Even though she was working for the chairman she put forth a most greatest effort in becoming a geisha and all the people who helped her along the way she would not have become a geisha. but she did have the help and enourmous amount of luck and then her drive got her out of debt and also the most desired geisha. she owes her life to her friends and mameha as well.
2.what sayuri is trying to do is no matter what happens in life whether you are rich or poor famous or unknown all things lead to the same thing .. somethings are unavoidable in life.time heals all as well as talking ...
my question: what was hatsumomos problem ... why was she so angry and jealous?
I think that Sayuri was blameless because she was forced from the beginning to be in the situation she is in now. She had to please the nitta okiya or else she would just make life harder for herself.
While her and pumpkin were in Okiya together, I dont think Sayuri could of helped her because she constantly was being harrassed by Hatsumomo to leave them alone. In the end i think that pumpkin gave up on trying to not let Hatsumomo corrupt her because she figured they are in their own situations trying to make life the way it is just managable.
i think that pumpkin should suck it up, its not sayuri falt that her mother wants to adopt her, i mean really comone!! Shes just trying to be the best geisha she can be ther thould be no reason for some one to be blamed for. Sayuri has an opertunity to become a really good geisha i mean like a legend of somwhat!!!!
Sayuri is blameless for being adopted. It was Mameha that planned and schemed to get Mother to adopt her. I do not think she could have made Pumpkin's life easier while they were in the okiya. this is because Sayuri was a slave. she could not have worked on a friendship with Pumkin. I believe that pumkin was basing alot of her feelings on broken promises made by Hatsumomo and Mother, but she viewed Sayuri as the betrayer because she benefitted from it.
While I do not think that Sayuri is blameless nor do I think that it is her fault. If she knew that when she was adopted that pumpkin would not be, I think she would have done things differently. Her motive was to become a successful geisha but she didnt betray her friend on purpose. Pumpkin is placing her blame in the wrong spot because its not Sayuris fault that Pumpkin wasnt chosen, it was Pumpkins. Sayuri didnt betray Pumpkin, but Nitta chose the better Geisha.
I think that Sayuri is not really at fault. She was just working to get to the top just like anyone else, and thats what landed her the adoption in to the Nitta okiya. I do think though Pumpkin was corupted by Hatsumomo. It was enevitable just because she was the aprentis and she was learning from the wrong master.
I think Sayuri was not to blame ,she could not control that it was good for her because it showed she was a better geisha., pumpkin should not have blamed her. she seemed just to be jealous, selfish and very immature. It was only far one was going to be picked and Sayuri was the best and Ms. Nitta knew that for a long while . She was not trying to betray pumpkin and she didn’t. Sayuri was entirely blameless in this case. I also do not think she could really have helped pumpkin. Pumpkin needed to help herself to work harder to become a geisha and not try to become like someone else. Hatsunomo was a bad influence on her.
I believe that Sayuri really cant be to blame, just because she ended up being successful. Since Sayuri has built up a substantial debt (a lot of which has been because of Hatsumomo), she needed a way to pay it off. It is even possible that Hatsumomo just said that Mother was going to adopt Pumpkin, just so it would bother Sayuri and Mameha. Sayuri really wants to help Pumpkin, and will do anything to make Pumpkin feel good toward Sayuri.
I believe that Sayuri really cant be to blame, just because she ended up being successful. Since Sayuri has built up a substantial debt (a lot of which has been because of Hatsumomo), she needed a way to pay it off. It is even possible that Hatsumomo just said that Mother was going to adopt Pumpkin, just so it would bother Sayuri and Mameha. Sayuri really wants to help Pumpkin, and will do anything to make Pumpkin feel good toward Sayuri.
I believe that Sayuri was entirely blameless in this incident because it was not really her own choice and it never is anyones choice when they get adopted there only fault is if they are to succeed or not.It would have made Pumpkins life easier if Sayuri was to stay at the okiya because they both would have been able to guide each other through out the way to becoming a geisha.I also think that Pumpkin's life has been corrupted by Hatsumomo in her younger years because in the end you could see some traits of Hatsumomo that could of rubbed off of her to Pumkin.
Sayuri didnt betray pumpkin, she had an opportunity to get adopted by the Nitta okiya and she took it. The way Hatsumomo's personality is I think that pumpkin being around her so much that she is aquiring hatsumomo's ways and that is why I think pumpkin is so jelous of Sayuri.
Sayuri didnt betray pumpkin, she had an opportunity to get adopted by the Nitta okiya and she took it. The way Hatsumomo's personality is I think that pumpkin being around her so much that she is aquiring hatsumomo's ways and that is why I think pumpkin is so jelous of Sayuri.
Sayuri didnt betray pumpkin, she had an opportunity to get adopted by the Nitta okiya and she took it. The way Hatsumomo's personality is I think that pumpkin being around her so much that she is aquiring hatsumomo's ways and that is why I think pumpkin is so jelous of Sayuri.
Sayuri didnt betray pumpkin, she had an opportunity to get adopted by the Nitta okiya and she took it. The way Hatsumomo's personality is I think that pumpkin being around her so much that she is aquiring hatsumomo's ways and that is why I think pumpkin is so jelous of Sayuri.
I believe Sayuri is totally blameless in this situation. There's nothing she can do about her being a better Geisha than Pumpkin. I think Ms. Nitta wanted to adopt Sayuri for a long time and never wanted Pumpkin. Pumpkin just let Hatsumomo corrupt her and turn her against her best friend.
I believe that Sayuri has no role in Pumpkins life in the okiya. If Pumpkin wanted to be adopted she should have worked harder. If any one is to blame it is Hatsumomo because she was not a very good teacher and was more worried about what Sayuri was doing I believe than Pumpkin.
I don't think Sayuri should be blamed for this. It isn't her fault that Mother wants to adopt her. Pumpkin, in my opinion is jealous and is acting a lot like Hatsumomo.
I don’t think that Sayuri is to blame. Honestly she is trying as hard as any other Geisha to become successful, Pumpkin has always struggled. I also believe that Ms. Nitta planned on adopting Sayuri when she found out how successful she was going to be. I think that Hatsumomo just told Pumpkin that she was going to adopt her so that she would tell that to Sayuri and it would eventually get to Mameha. I think that Sayuri was completely out of control and she would not be able to control the outcome of whether or not Pumpkin's life was easier or not. I don’t think that Hatsumomo corrupted Pumpkin she has to soft a heart but I think that she may have picked up some of Hatsumomo's habits and poor judgment.
Personally, the way that I look at it,is that Sayuri is a little bit to blame. However, it is not completely her fault. She had a better older sister than Pumpkin did. She practices better than Pumpkin did. So Sayuri by right should get all the rewards for her effort. I also think that because Pumpkin had Hatsumomo as an older sister, that is why she took it the way she did. She was starting to become just as corrupt as Hatsumomo.
I do think Sayuri is completely blameless. The lack of friendship between the two girls was caused by Mameha and Hutsumomo. It was also caused by the business they were in. Sayuri didn’t make the decision to have her be adopted, Mother did. She made it as a business decision, which doesn’t reflect on how she feels about either girl. Pumpkin is understandably upset and it is obvious she just needs someone to be mad at, but Sayuri shouldn’t be the one to get the blame.
I don't think that Sayuri was totally blameless.I think Pumpkin want that Sayuri don't become a better Gueisha than her.But Sayuri want just become a good Gueisha and pay off her debt.Sayuri was adopted by Ms. Nitta she never did anything to make Pumpkin's life harder.I think that Hatsumomo during the years has been corrupted Pumpkin character, and you can see in the end the pumpkin have many of the same characteristics as Hatsumomo.
I don’t think that Sayuri is to blame. Honestly she is trying as hard as any other Geisha to become successful, Pumpkin has always had a problem with this and has been struggling. I think that Sayuri had no part in the outcome of whether or not Pumpkin's life would be easy or not. I think that she was already set up be adopted.
And also, I don't think Pumpkin has become like Hatsumomo because she said she hated her when she talked to Sayuri.
I dont think Sayuri is to blame because it's not really her falt that she became such a successful Geisha. I think Sayuri was trying to be the best she could be as a Geisha to pay her debts. I believe that Hatsumomo is the reason why Pumpkin is jelous of Sayuri, Sayuri hasn't done anything to try and make Pumkin's life harder. Sayuri just took that oppertunity when it came around, Pumkin had the same oppertunity as well but didnt take it. So she has to have Hatsumomo as a big sister who brings her up as a Geisha to have something against Sayuri.
(Re-due)
Pumpkin's character has been shattered! When you spend so much time together with someone so nasty and cruel as Hatsumomo you start acting like them. you're actions and feelings toward things mesh into the ways of you're cruel friend. Sayuri has morals and people can see that! she doesn't trash talk or back stabb. she simply goes by the rules and stays to herself. She is a better geisha than Hatsumomo and Pumpkin will ever be. Not because she bribes or is intimidating but simply because she is a true geisha that has gone through the worst and deserves the best.
Sayuri is not to blame for pumpkins problem. It was all in the mother’s decision on what Sayuri is doing. Pumpkin feels betrayed but if she was a real friend she should support Sayuri instead of putting guilt on her mind. Pumpkin was already doomed from the start anyways just because she was partnered up with Hotsumono. I do believe that Hotsumono corrupted pumpkin because her jealousy with Sayuri. In a way I think Pumpkin was jealous too because Sayuri was being treated better than her and she was finding out that she was becoming more popular than Hotsumono and herself.
At the end what Pumpkin did to Sayuri what way worse to what happen to her. If she was a real friend she would forgive and forget and not seek revenge.
I dont think it was not Sayuri's fault. Sayuri was a successful geisha and Pumpkin was jealous of her success and being selfish. Sayuri just wanted to get her debt payed off. Sayuri never did anything on purpose to make Pumpkin's life harder.
I believe Sayuri can't be blamed for this. Its not her fault that she made more money than Pumkin. Of course who ever makes the most money in the Okiya will be adopted, and Sayuri fit this description. I don't belive Pumkin was corrupt by Harsumomo, its just unfortunate that Pumkin was adopted by such a hard headed person.
I believe that Hatsumomo is to blame for Pumpkin's feeling of betrayal. I beleive that she is who filled Pumpkin's head with this fantasy of being adopted by the Nitta Okiya. I do believe that Sayuri accepted the adoption offer knowing that Pumpkin wanted it so badly. However i do not blame her because they live in a Kill-Or-Be-Killed kind of environment and if she had refused to be adopted for the sake of Pumpkin she would be a prisoner to her debt to the okiya for the rest of her life. It's every man for themselves thier world.
I think that Pumkin is wrongly angry with Sayuri, Sayuri had no control over what okiya she was adopted into and if anything I think Pumkin is jealous because Sayuri became a better giesha than her and Hatsumomo. Hatsumomo's influence on Pumpkin is also a factor in why Pumpkin was acting this way i guess in short Pumkin is what you call a Hater.
I never think that, in a competition, the winner who plays by the rules, and wins, is to blame for the anguish that is felt by the loser. How can some one expect to win a "game" with out working for it, and working against the opponent. If the opposition is better, pardon my french but Sh*t happens. You lose, that's life. the Corruption taught by Hatsumomo did play a part in how everything worked out, but i don't think it was significant enough to cause Pumpkin to do it against her will. She knew well and clear the consequences, and she chose not to pay attention to them.
Nathanael DuVall
per 2
“Rising from the Ashes”
I do not believe that it was Sayuri's fault in any way that she was adopted instead of Pumkin. Ms. Nitta was the one who made the decision, not Sayuri. sure she could have refused Ms. Nitta and gotten thrown out of the Okiya, but who would lose the roof over thier head and a chance to own a home, for a girl who hasn't been THAT good of a friend. Now im not saying that Pumkin didnt help Sayuri when she needed it, so in a way Sayuri could have helped a little with the pain of the adoption. for instance promise pumkin that she will always have a roof under her head as long as Sayuri was the daughter of the Okiya, or simply that they will always be friends and she will do all she can to help Pumpkin. But instead she didn't say anything. So i can understand Pumkins frustration to an extent, but she did over react just a little in my opinion.
I don't think that Sayuri is to blame and I also don't think that she betrayed Pumpkin. Because Sayuri was willing to be friends with Pumpkin even after Hatsumomo told Pumkin to avoid her. I think that Pumpkin has been around Hatsumomo so long that she started to mold into a mini Hatsumomo. By trying to act like her so, that she can become as good of a geisha as Hatsumomo was. I think that Pumpkin felt she was betrayed because, Sayuri became a better geisha then Pumpkin and Hatsumomo ever could. Plus Hatsumomo and Pumpkin had a lot more experience then Sayuri did...
I don’t think that Sayuri deceived Pumpkin. She is still to blame for what she did to Pumpkin, because she was the one who took Pumpkins dream (of owning a place of her own) away. She was just doing the job that would help her odds of survival. When Sayuri befell the descendant of the Okiya she felt dreadful for Pumpkin and requested from Mother if she could take on both of them. Pumpkin of course was distressed that she wasn’t adopted, however, there was no way both of them could be just as successful as the other one. Sayuri just occurred to turn out to be a superior Geisha. I don’t think Pumpkin took to Hatsumomo's ways. Pumpkin thought that her only friend had injured her internally.
In my opinion Sayuri is completely blameless, that is just how the world of business goes. If Sayuri is more productive than Pumpkin then she should get adopted over Pumpkin. I dont believe she could have made pumpkins life easier because Pumpkin was on Hatsumomo's side and she wanted sayuri to fail at everything. Yes Hatsumomo basically caused Pumpkins failure by working the system to pump up Pumpkins earnings. Basically the only reason that Pumpkin even was in the same category as Sayuri, was that Hatsumomo cheated the system by taking pumpkin to multiple parties instead of staying at one like Apprentice Giesha are supposed to do.
I do think that Sayuri getting adopted might have played a small role in the gelousy but Hatsumomo was the core cause of the problem.
Sayuri didnt betray pumpkin, she had an opportunity to get adopted by the Nitta okiya and she took it. The way Hatsumomo's personality is I think that pumpkin being around her so much that she is aquiring hatsumomo's ways and that is why I think pumpkin is so jelous of Sayuri. Hatsumomo waisted alot of time on trying to make Sayuri look bad and wanting her to fail at being a Geisha. She could have put alot more effort in promoting Pumpkin and making her a better Geisha and just try to beat Sayuri by using Pumpkin.
Sayuri is a little more to blame but she didnt do it on purpose. She had no clu and she was jsut trying to keep herself in the game. From what I read i dont thionk she purposely tried ot make her life harder. Hatsumomo deffintley wore off on pumpkin a little bit. She wasent corrupted though just her point of view and actiuons were changed a little
Sayuri is not to blame because the art of Geisha is very competitive and she was a better Geisha so thats why she left Pumpkin behind. Its pumpkins fault for being so self conceded but i think that they should still be friends in spite of their Geisha status.
I don't believe that it is Sayuri's fault at all that she was picked to go be a geisha at the Nitta okiya. She was picked over pumpkin because she was more beautiful. I think that Sayuri did help make Pumpkins life easier when they lived together because she was her friend. Someone that was there for her. After living with Hatsumomo, Pumpkin did change to be more cruel just like Hatsumomo.
I don't think that Sayuri is to blame. She worked hard, and in the end was chosen over Pumpkin. She had no say in what Mother wants to do. Pumpkin feeling betrayed and being bitter is showing that Hatsumomo is taking control of her. I also do not think that they should become rivals. They were friends since meeting, and I don't think that should change now that one is successful.
I do not think that it is sayuri's fault that she succeeded and pumpkin didn't. Pumpkin could have worked harder, actually I do not feel as though pumpkin could have won because sayuri was taught by mamaha instead of hatsumomo.
I don't beleve that sasyori shouldbe blamed sasuri is trying her hardest. i don't beleve theres any way she could make pumkins life any easier. what she does affects her sasyuria cant give up opurtunitys.
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